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Thread: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    northern Colorado
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    Post Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    I'd asked a lot of questions a couple of months ago, then dropped off for a while (first for a wheeling trip, then for cancer surgery - on me, the jeep bodywork comes next ;-) )

    Thought it might be of use to someone to relate my experiences setting up an Edelbrock 4bbl carb on my V6-225 – warning, long…

    Background: In bringing my ’66 back from a long sleep, it became clear an engine re-man was in the cards (145K miles, valves acting up on un-leaded gas, etc.). I had the engine sent off to Jasper (magnafluxed the block, .040 over, RV cam, etc.). Unfortunately the original intake manifold was apparently warped. Even after a light pass at a machine shop, we couldn’t get it to seal up, and could not find a replacement 2bbl manifold. So, I ended up with an Offenhauser 4 bbl. intake manifold (dual port, dual plane). The smallest carb we could find was the Holley 390 cfm, but after 2-3 months of messing with it, including 2 pro 4x4 shops here in northern Colorado, I could not get it running well. I swapped the Holley back out for an Edelbrock (model EPS 1404, 500 cfm, elec. choke), which out-of-the box ran better than we ever got the Holley.

    I live at about 5000’, and mostly go up from there, so no surprise that even though the engine ran pretty smoothly, it was way rich. Edelbrock carbs (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html) use both metering rod and jet changes as needed to calibrate. I had a big trip coming up (a week of wheeling in the Colorado high country!) very shortly after getting the carb in, so we took a guess at 3 steps lean (we would be above 12,000’ on at least a couple of trails). Incidentally, Edelbrock recommends 1 step (4%) change in mix with every 3000’ elevation change.

    Stock setup (sealevel) for the carb is .086 main jets, .065 (cruise) x .052 (power) metering rods, and .095 secondary jets, and typically a bigger engine. From Edelbrock’s chart (see above site, owner’s manual) we tried .083 main jets, .067x.055 rods, and .089 secondaries, and hoped for the best. I also put in the ‘off road’ kit, PN 1465, and a 1” phenolic spacer under it (heat was ‘boiling’ gas in the bowl). This got me through the trip, but with considerable difficulty keeping it running under higher power, higher elevations (seemed pretty rich). Gas mileage for 500 miles was not much over 8 mpg!

    By then, I’d had enough of trying to get someone else to set up the carb right, and with this elevation range in my ‘back yard’ I decided I’d best get this beast figured out myself. I got with Larry at Edelbrock tech support (found them <very> helpful, by the way). I bought the calibration kit, PN 1486, and got a few more sizes of rods along the way.

    Knowing I didn’t know much about tuning a 4bbl carb, I also sprung for an O2 (air/fuel) exhaust sensor, and a dash mount meter (http://www.summitracing.com, PN SUM-G2989 and Cyberdyne digital (LED)). This really made the difference! I could finally measure the mixture, not guess (even though metering is <too> sensitive, one has to do kind of a visual running average). It turned out I was running way lean at cruise <and> way rich at power, even before compounding this with the elevation change.

    Since then, I’ve tried quite a number of metering rods and jets. I won’t bore you further with all the combinations (send me a note if you’re curious), but here’s what I’ve ended up with as the best I can find for my rig, YMMV:

    .083 main jets, .065x.057 rods, .089 secondary jets. At 5000’ this combo sets me a bit lean on cruise (as I like), and a bit rich on power (I’d rather be nearer neutral, but they don’t make the ‘perfect’ rod, my guess is ideal would be about .065x.059, since I’m more likely to go up than down in elevation). Mileage now runs more like 12–13 mpg around town, and in one run up to 10,000’ and back I got nearly 16. Big improvement! Sounds and feels much happier, too.

    I also will carry .068x.057 rods (likely about right for cruise at 9-10,000’) and .070x.057 rods (for higher elevation cruise). Unfortunately, there aren’t any rods available that lean out the power side in this range. I could go to a still smaller jet (.080 and .077 are available), but then I’d be way lean on the cruise side. If I get a chance sometime, I will experiment with the .080 jets and .065x.057 rods at higher elevations, though swapping out jets requires opening the carb body, not something I’m excited about doing on the trail. Note that changing the rods is a breeze, accessible right under the air cleaner.

    Whew, way longer than I’d have liked, hope this helps someone!
    Van

    One owner '66 CJ5/V6 Offy intake, Eddy 4bbl, .040 over, RV cam; SM420, Warn OD, T18/TerraLow, 4.88's, PLoc front & rear, Warn Bellevue 6K winch, dual gas tanks, BFG 31's, Rancho springs/shocks, Koenig top.

  2. #2
    vanguard Guest

    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    Nice write up Van!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    it was way over my head at times, but this is osmething i will keep, i just cut and pasted it into my jeep info folder.thanks
    Erik
    1955 F Head, twin stick, pto 13K orig miles...restoration in progress
    Not for fame or reward, Not for place or for rank, Not lured by ambition, Or goaded by necessity, But in simple Obedience to Duty; As they understood it, These men suffered all, Sacrificed all, Dared all--and died

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    I wish you live at sea level, i could use the rod numbers you use to tune the carb. i am running better now that i have a single exhaust on, but i plan on tuning the 500 CFM on my jeep a little more so that i can get better mileage, i run out of gas way too soon.
    Dan Stewart
    1963 M38a1
    1991 Wrangler

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    Thanks Van!

    See the front page for more now.


    Adam Sparks

    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” ~ Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    LOL - Guess it only goes to show... The '46 has an Edelbrock 4BBL intake (Model 5486) and HAD a 500CFM Edelbrock (Model 1404) carb on it. We tuned it pretty good last hunting season (7k to 12K alt change on a daily basis using a tuning kit), but it had a pretty radical cam in it. Then it flattened a lifter and cam lobe so we took it in for a rebuild. Put an RV cam in it - got her back on the road and it SUCKED... After much messing around we finnaly dropped the new Holley 390 I had on the shelf for my new 225 (install in @ 4 weeks) on it. It ran better out of the box than we could get the 500 to run any more. To that point I have just ordered another 390 for his jeep (so I can have mine back)... I will share the rod and jet sizes we found to be best when it was running good(they are at home in my 'black book' I document everything in) in hopes of helping you out.

    Still need another 390 - Wanna swap for a good (less than a couple months use) Edelbrock 1404?

    Chuck AKA Warloch
    51 CJ3A - V6 Kenne Bell 225, EFI - 4.88 Axles with OX lockers - SM465*49 CJ3A - V6 225, EFI, T18, OD, 5.38s - fight is on who gets it (Grandson in the lead)*72 Commando - Sporting a 360, T18, body and Misc left to do*61 CJ6 - V6 225 - Project Shrek for Sheldon - waiting for the Commando to finish*62 CJ5 - 225, D18, OD, 5.38s - Niece's Rig

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    Re Dan: I wish you live at sea level, i could use the rod numbers you use to tune the carb.

    Hmmm, a 3000 mile road trip?? Nahh, too wet down there ;-)

    One way to look at it would be to take my base setup, and try to guess back the other way. Unfortunately, the combo I ended up with isn't on their chart, but a first rough guess would be to try their chart ref. #4 (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html, find calibration chart for 1404), which would be .065x.057 rod with your stock .086 jets. I'd probably drop one level on the secondaries, too, not that they get opened much. If my guessing here is right, you're currently not running to badly at a steady cruise, but acting rich as soon as you get on it some?

    Luck!
    Van

    One owner '66 CJ5/V6 Offy intake, Eddy 4bbl, .040 over, RV cam; SM420, Warn OD, T18/TerraLow, 4.88's, PLoc front & rear, Warn Bellevue 6K winch, dual gas tanks, BFG 31's, Rancho springs/shocks, Koenig top.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Warloch
    LOL - Guess it only goes to show...

    Still need another 390 - Wanna swap for a good (less than a couple months use) Edelbrock 1404?

    Well, I got lucky and got my $$$ back for the Holley (still on warranty), so no trade stock here. If yours has the manual choke I wish I had it. Mine's actually the 1403, auto. choke, which was not what I wanted.

    BTW, howdy 'neighbor', I'm just north of Fort Collins!

    Van
    Van

    One owner '66 CJ5/V6 Offy intake, Eddy 4bbl, .040 over, RV cam; SM420, Warn OD, T18/TerraLow, 4.88's, PLoc front & rear, Warn Bellevue 6K winch, dual gas tanks, BFG 31's, Rancho springs/shocks, Koenig top.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    Lexington, South Cakalaki
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    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    IRight now i have been going by the chart on their book. I am wodnering then, the front needles and jets are for cruising and the rear is for power? Is this correct? I am not sure which circuits are for cruise and which is for power. i read the manual a bunch of times but it made my eyes crossed because i studied it so much. i have the calibration kit with lots of jets and needles
    Dan Stewart
    1963 M38a1
    1991 Wrangler

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Albuquerque
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    159

    Default Re: Edelbrock 4bbl on a 225 V6

    Same issues with the carb on my M715. Had the original (as far as I know) motorcraft 2150 on it. I tried putting a remanned motorcraft 2150 from Partsamerica on it. After a lot of work and many weeks, I got the auto choke system on it working but still only got 7.5 mpg.

    Finally gave up and put a Holley 2300 2V 350CFM on it. Manual choke is WAY better than that auto crappola. Runs better now than I've ever had it run. I'm at 5000' too and need to re-jet and drop the #61s down to #57s but even at that it looks like it's getting 9 mpg right out of the box. Doesn't sound great but after 7.5 mpg for months it's a big improvement!

    Stan

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