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should I use chipped teeth ?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Johns1967CJ5, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Jan 6, 2014
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

    Northern NJ
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    I am rebuilding a T-86 and found chipped gears. Can not find a first/reverse sliding gear and cluster gear is expensive to replace. Is it wise to clean up these chipped teeth with a file and re use ? It's been over 20 years since driving it , I dont remember any shifting or grinding issues. Or should I take the plunge with a new cluster gear ? Seems I am stuck with first/reverse. New ones don't exist.
     
  2. Jan 6, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Mmm. Depends on what you can afford, IMO. Looks pretty bad to me. I think there's a tech note on the Randy's Ring and Pinion page about dressing chipped gear teeth.

    The usual cure for a T-86 is to find a good T-90 and put all the gears into the T-86 case. You would not use any of the guts of the T-86. New gears are widely available for the T-90. You may be able to find all new parts for a T-90. Herm the overdrive guy sells a replacement T-86 with T-90 gears for $550, plus $150 core. http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/?page_id=1415 Or you could look around for a good T-90A and find/buy the T-90J input shaft. That would give you all the gears you need.
     
  3. Jan 6, 2014
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Both those gear sets are trouble and just to much damage in my opinion to save.............normally a small chip here or there and you can clean it up with a small grinder.......but that cluster is shot and that sliding gear will give you nothing but problems.....There is a Jeep wrecker over in Pennsylvania named Jeeans or something close to that............I could try to find his number that has allot of used gear sets for various Jeep Transmissions.............Sorry!
     
  4. Jan 6, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Another comment - if I may.

    I would not spend a lot of money on T-86 gears, even if I could find them. You could spend a lot of money and then break another gear, and you'd be in the same boat again. If you convert to T-90 gears, all the T-90 parts are available as reproductions, there were lots of T-90s made, and used T-90s don't go for a lot of money. It's the same transmission except for the case, the beveled 1st-reverse gears, and the spiral splines on the mainshaft. Otherwise they are dimensionally the same. The straight-cut sliding gear of the T-90 will be louder than the T-86, but straight cut gears are stronger then beveled gears. So the modified transmission will be fixed, more repairable, and somewhat stronger.
     
  5. Jan 6, 2014
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    are you running the V6 . if so I would think . finding a used T14 , would be cheaper . that rebuilding the transmission you have now
     
  6. Jan 6, 2014
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    Thanks for all the advice. I tried Herm the overdrive guy and he had all the gears but the rotation of his gears were the opposite of mine. Didn't even know that even existed. I was hoping to keep it all original for the resto. I purchased a reverse idler gear already and can get the cluster for $ 190.00 still cheaper than converting to a 90 I guess but the first slider gear is the headache. I found one on Ebay for $ 124.00 but the rotation of the gear is opposite of mine . I will keep an eye out for a used T-90 but i am not in a hurry so I will see if I can find the T-86 gears too. I know the wise thing would be to pay the $ 500.00 for the rebuilt but I kind of wanted to do everything myself :)
     
  7. Jan 6, 2014
    Middlefork Miner

    Middlefork Miner Member

    N. Highlands Ca
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    You're a braver man than me...:) As somebody who recently went through the same dilemma with a T86, (if you have the time) go with a four speed... either a T98 or a T18...it may be a little more time consuming & a little more costly, but down the road, you'll be happy you did...It will also be a plus if you ever decide to sell it. Also, while you've got the transmission out, do a rebuild on the transfer case before you stick it back in...If I'd had the luxury of TIME when I did mine, I wouldn't be looking at pulling mine back out & doing the transfer case (at a minimum) this coming spring, (six months later)...:rofl:
     
  8. Jan 6, 2014
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    This is a total restoration so everything is apart right now. I am planning to rebuild the transfer case. As far as using a 4 speed, part of the fun, for me anyway, is restoring back to factory specs. That is my goal anyway.

    On another note, If I do decide to convert to a T90 are the parts different for the V6 ( which I have ) vs a 4 cylinder ?

    I found this on ebay
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
     
  9. Jan 6, 2014
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

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    The only difference is the input shaft. if you decide to go that way, PM me and I'll see if I have any full sets left in the bin. I do have several V6 input shafts last I looked.
     
  10. Jan 6, 2014
    Middlefork Miner

    Middlefork Miner Member

    N. Highlands Ca
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    Have fun...
     
  11. Jan 7, 2014
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    I am
     
  12. Jan 7, 2014
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Putting the T90 guts in the T86 case should give you a reasonably strong trans that looks 100% stock.
     
  13. Jan 7, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    Remember one if the shifter forks needs changed if putting T-90 guts in a T-86 case.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  14. Jan 9, 2014
    tomatolane

    tomatolane Lane

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    If you have a tig welder? just build the teeth back up.

    Just watch your heat build up, or you will make the teeth soft.

    I do it to muncie gears for buddies all the time.most of that is 4140 tho.
     
  15. Jan 9, 2014
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Welding on gears? Maybe as a last resort........I've never had any luck welding on anything that has been heat treated without first reversing the process.

    Those gears have been machined, heat treated and then ground to finish and then as a final process another case hardening process is performed last........the reason they break is because they are brittle otherwise they would never hold up!......adding additional heat to them during the welding process without first annealing would attempt to re-arrange the molecules which is not a good idea as a first step......once there annealed then perhaps they might be able to be welded and then re-machined , heat treated and ground again ................but why? ...................That process is far to expensive to save any old set of gears!
     
  16. Jan 9, 2014
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    I am attempting to find replacements. If I can do that cheaper than swapping everything to a t90 I will. So far I found a cluster at willys overland for $190.00 and a first gear for $ 50.00 . That should be all I need other than my wife releasing the funds :)
     
  17. Jan 9, 2014
    tomatolane

    tomatolane Lane

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    I have always just used on any heat treated,metal .. I use a tool steel filler rod, or use a hard facing rod and have no problems at all.Have don it for years.

    on most heat treated steel . preheat to a min of 450 F and 1200 degrees post weld heat is best......... but 450 in a oven will do if that is all you have, just dont quench it, needs to cool slow.

    I do preheat with my oven set to 450, and use my torch to heat it up after the weld.

    But after you weld you can preheat the oven 450 and it will work good enough, for gears.Just be careful welding the chrome molly in one spot for to long can turn to chromium carbide .

    Cast iron can be done with high nickle rods.

    But you have to be good, lots of time it becomes so hard it cant be machined/filed .


    But for like a turbine shaft I wouldn't trust it.

    But I am just saying, not arguing at all.I do it for all kinds of tool harden steel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  18. Jan 9, 2014
    tomatolane

    tomatolane Lane

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    Kinda like when welding stainless, it can all go to hell real fast , if you get so much heat in it, that the cold working goes away, and then it becomes soft.

    All the grains become elongated.
     
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