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Intermittent Starting Problem

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by durangotang, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. Dec 1, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    Mar 17, 2010
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    501
    I'm at a bit of a loss, so I'm tossing this out there to you guys...

    [​IMG]
    Initial Problem: Original starter (right in pic) started giving me periodic problems where it would do nothing when I turned the key to 'start' (no click). I replaced the solenoid and this seemed to fix things until I randomly would get just a click from the solenoid when I tried to start it. I charged up the battery and it kept happening so I decided to replace the starter with the Toyota Landcruiser one from NAPA (left in pic).

    Installed:
    [​IMG]

    Everything worked great for a few days, then I got back to just a click on startup. I replaced the ground strap, cut and re-soldered the blue wire to the ignition switch, and checked all of the battery connections.

    After this, everything was great again until today when I randomly got the click again and had to push-start the jeep (started up fine). Prior to push starting I got the following measurements with my meter:

    battery voltage: 12.67V
    battery voltage with key on "start" (just a click): 12.1V

    I got home after the push start and tried the starter, it cranked and started just fine. I shut it off, and it cranked fine again.

    My thoughts:
    1. Possible bad ground at ignition switch, might build a jumper from the switch body to the chassis ground.
    2. Shady connection somewhere inside the new starter
    3. Ignition switch itself has a shady connection to the blue "start" wire.
    4. Drive gear isn't mating with ring gear on occasion. (not sure about this one because I did rotate the engine by hand and still just got the click)

    Anything I am missing?
     
  2. Dec 1, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    was this bad start on a cold engine or warm?

    I would focus on the ignition switch..
    had a similar issue and it was a loose spade terminal on the back
     
  3. Dec 1, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    Mar 17, 2010
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    501
    First time it happened was cold engine, second time was a warm engine. The only components in the circuit that would effect the starter would be the: 1)battery to switch, 2)switch to starter, and 3)ground.... right?

    I'll take a closer look at the battery/switch connection.
     
  4. Dec 1, 2016
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Bad connections and bad wires can be aggravating to find so check connections even if you are sure they're good. I've found bad connections by accident or maybe it was just luck. :)
     
  5. Dec 1, 2016
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    "The only components in the circuit that would effect the starter would be the: 1)battery to switch, 2)switch to starter, and 3)ground.... right? "

    You missed one. Battery.

    Tried swapping for a known good one?
     
  6. Dec 1, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    Battery was load tested and came back good.
     
  7. Dec 1, 2016
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Okay. But your trouble is intermittant/random. I'd try another battery for a while.:)
     
  8. Dec 3, 2016
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    One of two things.
    1. Check the wire from the start terminal on the ignition switch. Could be something along that stretch between the starter and the ignition switch.
    2. Drop the wire from the starter to the ignition start terminal completely out of the equation and stick a momentary on switch (like a horn button) on the dash in easy reach of the driver, and wire that to the on-with-key terminal (or the 'RUN' terminal, if you prefer that name) and a second wire from that button to the start terminal on the Toy starter.
     
    dozerjim likes this.
  9. Dec 3, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    My '70 & my dad's '69 both suffered from this problem. Both have separate starter buttons now. Problem solved.
     
  10. Dec 4, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    Following up in case anyone else has a similar issue. I replaced the ignition switch with a much higher quality one from NAPA (all studs, no spade connectors). I'm very confident that it is fixed. Starter motor spins faster than I have ever heard it and I suddenly realized how much slop was in the old ignition.
     
  11. Dec 5, 2016
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Curious. I would have thought the speed of the starter was dependent on the solenoid, not the switch.
     
  12. Dec 5, 2016
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Same here but.....if poor connections can lead to dim lights, then? Is it possible for the solenoid to not make the best connection due to a faulty switch?
     
  13. Dec 6, 2016
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    I had these clicking issues when my starter bendix was staying stuck in the flywheel. Ended up having original starter rebuilt with new USA made bendix. When it happened the motor seemed seized. I'd have to unbolt the starter and then bolt It back on and it would be good again until it happened again
     
  14. Dec 6, 2016
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Sounds like it needed a drop of oil on the shaft where the bendix travels. Occasionally mine would seize up over the winter, in the free (disengaged) position.
     
  15. Dec 6, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    Another update for those that might be curious. I took the meter to the old ignition switch to try and see what might have been happening. It just seemed very odd that the ignition switch would have a causal relationship with the speed of the starter.

    Long story short: When checking resistance from the switch batt post to the starter post with the key turned to 'start' I noticed that the resistance jumped all over the place. When checking continuity with the audible beep, however, I found that it was not maintaining a solid connection. The beep pitch was constantly changing and was intermittent. It looks like this was the culprit and was sending random voltage spikes to the solenoid instead of consistent current. I don't know the specifics of how the solenoid dealt with this, but apparently it was enough to cause the problems I described.
     
    Hellion likes this.
  16. Dec 6, 2016
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    I like the audible beep tip, thanks. What kind of meter are you using?
     
  17. Dec 6, 2016
    durangotang

    durangotang Member 2022 Sponsor

    Not Western CO
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    This guy... love the thing as it does RPM and temperature in addition to usual Automotive DMMâ„¢
     
    Hellion and Focker like this.
  18. Dec 6, 2016
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    You can always try sticking the tranny in first or reverse and rock the JEEP back and forth. That stuck bendix drive should pop loose.

     
  19. Dec 10, 2016
    eti engineer

    eti engineer Member

    Great Central...
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    Fokker

    A Fluke 87 multimeter will give you the choice of an audible beep or just straight resistance measurements. I have three of them which I use in my work. When one works with 3-phase AC, sometimes one needs three meters or more. Fluke may cost more, but you get what you pay for. I wouldn't have any other...
     
  20. Dec 11, 2016
    Unkel Dale

    Unkel Dale delivery on my Jeep from Ft. Campbell, Ky.

    Pittsburgh, Pa.
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    Mine was the switch attached to a burnt wire in the loom
     
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