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Toe Adjustment

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by B-Rad, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Jun 25, 2019
    B-Rad

    B-Rad Member

    Dayton
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    Hey everyone, I think I need to set my toe adjustment in slightly on my 75 cj5. It gets a little wondery at speeds higher that 45 or so. Nothing crazy, but if someone else drives the Jeep I want it to behave a little more. The steering box is only a year or so old, and all the other front end parts seem tight. How do I adjust the toe?

    It does not appear that the tie rod ends are adjustable? Do I need to get that sleeve loose and adjust that in or out?

    Thanks. From what I can measure rim to rim on the front and back there is almost no toe in. Or should I just go to an alignment place and see what it reads?
     

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  2. Jun 25, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    I'd toe it in between 1/8" and 1/4" as a rough guess.

    On a flat surface, measure between opposing points on the wheel rims, then roll the jeep a half-turn and measure again at the same points.

    Have you searched "death wobble?"
     
  3. Jun 25, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I don't understand your problem. Toe is adjusted by the tie rod that goes from knuckle to knuckle. Loosen the clamps, rotate the tie rod and the tie rod lengthens or shortens. Length of the tie rod determines the toe-in. Change the length of the rod from the steering gear (pitman arm) to the knuckle and you center the steering, or not.
     
  4. Jun 25, 2019
    B-Rad

    B-Rad Member

    Dayton
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    Its not death wobble, I have seen that before. It more just likes to wander at higher speeds.
     
  5. Jun 25, 2019
    B-Rad

    B-Rad Member

    Dayton
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    Ok, so the tie rod ends do adjust in an out. I should turn them each equal amounts correct? Maybe try one rotation on each side and re measure? Thanks

    ** Just put a pipe wrench on the tie rod bar and twist? One is left hand and one is right hand?
     
  6. Jun 25, 2019
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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    Wander is usually improper caster angle or perhaps a broken belt in a tire.
    It might be beneficial to take the vehicle to an alignment shop and have them check your camber, caster and toe in before you just start turning the tie rod clamps.
     
  7. Jun 26, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    This. Use plenty penetrating oil the day before.
     
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  8. Jun 26, 2019
    B-Rad

    B-Rad Member

    Dayton
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    The tires are in good shape, fairly new and no noise from them. I kind of thought the caster was just for the steering wheel centering itself back after a turn, will read into that a little more. I might need shims for the front.
     
  9. Jun 26, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    With factory height springs, you should have sufficient caster unless the axle housing is broken. The caster is welded-in to the housing. I would be sure all the other wear-related aspects have been addressed, such as worn spring bushings, no broken frame (happens!). u-bolts secure, steering bell coupling in good shape, worn ball joints, etc. I'd go ahead and measure the toe-in, but wouldn't assume that is the source of the problem.
     
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  10. Jun 26, 2019
    B-Rad

    B-Rad Member

    Dayton
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    The Jeep has a 2-2.5 inch lift, so not much lift really since the original springs were worn out. I should check the spring bushings, any particular way to check them or just look at them to see if torn up?
     
  11. Jun 26, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    First I would watch how the frame moves relative to the axle as you turn the steering wheel back and forth. Ideally you want all of the turning force to turn the tires, but there will be some straining of the parts due to the suspension design. Live axles with leaf springs is rather primitive, with plenty of locations that can go sloppy.
     
  12. Jun 26, 2019
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    I remembered that when i was using coil spring....when turning wheel on solid ground (not moving) there was a lot of part that use to move along the wheel...
     
  13. Jun 26, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    With coil springs, you should have a panhard bar that keeps the front axle at the same left-right location under the frame. The angle of the panhard bar with the axle determines how much it stops left-right movement of the frame, and how much it tries to lift the Jeep in response to the steering (the drop pitman arm is the same idea, reducing the angle, but its purpose is to reduce bump steer). The higher the panhard bar angle, the larger the lifting force becomes. A leaf-sprung Jeep depends on the lateral rigidity of the springs and the stiffness of the spring bushings to keep the Jeep from moving left-right above the axle when turning.
     
  14. Jun 26, 2019
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Wise man!
     
  15. Jun 26, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    That return to center feel is the function of positive caster angle. That same positive caster helps to keep the vehicle from wondering, as you say you are complaining about. Do you have stock length shackles up front? Longer shackles decrease caster.
    Tow in also affects how well a vehicle tracks on the road. Tow in is not measured at the rim, but measured at the tire tread, in your case, approximately 1/8"- 3/16". An alignment shop typically scribes a mark around the circumference of the tire, then adjusts the measure to 1/8" less at the front than the rear. This measure is taken exactly horizontally, front to rear.
    Both these variables can affect the handling issues you are trying to correct. You might be best to take your Jeep to a shop that can determine what is needed.
    -Donny
     
  16. Jun 28, 2019
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    Sorry i did write too fast...i wanted to tell when i was having the leaf spring...
     
  17. Jun 28, 2019
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
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    you shouldnt need to remove the tie rod ends. one side is reverse threads so it widens and shortens like that. Grab it with the pipe wrench out at the end by the clamp so you dont crush the tube. I measure toe on a tire tread rather than to the rim. Its more accurate farther out from the hub. Iv checked it on an alignment machine afterwords and its always spot on. Definately check your caster aswell
     
  18. Jun 28, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    *With bias ply tires.

    Bias-ply tires (like these jeeps were designed for) turn oval at speed with the contact patch moving rearward, effectively increasing caster right when you need it. They took advantage of this fact and built older cars with minimal (if any) caster to make low- or no-speed steering easier. Great for cars with manual steering. Stand-still steering effort increases with increased caster.

    As power steering became more popular, so did radial tires, and caster numbers could be bumped up a little. Radial tires don’t distort at speed (and they benefit from greater caster), and power steering made the stand-still steering concerns obsolete.

    So yes, if using all the equipment these jeeps were designed for, including the tires, no adjustments should be necessary. But if more modern tires are being used, some caster shims would probably help out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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