Should I Thread The Intermediate Steering Shaft Through The Header?

I bought this project quite awhile ago with a frame that had been wheeled hard and had patches welded over patches. It seemed easier to start with a good used frame which is where I am now. It's a '64 Willys CJ5 but has the Dauntless 225 with the stock drivetrain and I've swapped all that stuff over to the "new" frame. I'm finally making time for this project and having owned and driven it for awhile before I took it apart I know how horrible the driving position was set up. It seems like the normal complaints were all there. The seat was too close the dash/wheel. Your knees hit the steering wheel. The column and wheel were at a ridiculous angle. It felt like the teacup ride at Disneyland. PO had installed a power Saginaw box and tilt column to help but it wasn't really very good. The brakes were in need of refreshing also. Once I decided to go for it I started by putting the seat where it was comfortable with a 2 1/2" wheelhouse notch. Then I mocked up the column to find the steering wheel position and column angle and modified the dash to accept intermediate CJ swinging pedals. I have the 70's tub the pedals came from so I had a chance to look at the location on the firewall for the pedals and column mount. That's where I started. Working my way out to the steering box looks like it will take a fixed bearing and 2 u- joints but when I looked for the best position for the steering shafts this is what I came up with...

 

Here's the driving position

 

Here's the column and pedal position mocked up. You can see the original column mount used for the tilt column.

 

The shaft has about 5/8" of clearance to the center pipe on the header and this is the tightest place. The pillow block will mount on the frame just ahead of the motor mount and it's a pretty straight shot to the box from there. So.... does anyone want to guess whether this is this going to hit when the frame flexes? I've seen crazier stuff on street rods but they usually aren't going off road. I'm not going to wheel this rig hard but you know how that goes. What does everyone think? Thanks.

 

Having just dealt with this on my V6’d rig, i’ll say it was never a consideration to do it that way.

30” speedway column to collapsible shaft to steering box via two high quality u-joints is how i did it, much closer to the stock angle

I think you could do the same as me, but substitute a tilt column from speedway to reach out towards your non-stock seating location. Just a thought.

 

By the way. This jeep came from Eldorado county in CA. Someone here might remember it. It has a 3" mandrel bent cage which makes it look like a toy and is pretty unusual. I think it originally was white and it had the local gold panning guy as a hood ornament.

 

I dont see a problem there, other than making a header gasket change a real PITA. I dont think it will hit, but if it does you can always dimple the header tube for a little more clearance.

 

This column angle is 42 degrees and it exits in a similar place on the firewall as it did on the intermediate long nose tub I have. Some of this consideration was to get the pedals in with the least modifications too. BidDaddy are you running swinging pedals?

 

Nope, still in floor.

 

I think i’d rather see a longer column lower on the floor and then use one of these to mitigate the angle at the column:

Sweet Mfg. Double Steering U-Joint, 3/4 In DD to 3/4 In DD, Universal

 

If it were me, I would put the column at a steeper angle and run underneath the headers.

also, it may just be my imagination, but that seat looks really high. When I bought my 1956 it had similar looking seats and I was literally looking OVER the windshield. If you install a seat with less padding, you can lower the steering column and get under the headers pretty easily.

 

That is the same way I built my 3B steering. It uses a Flaming River tilt column and Borgeson U-joints/shaft.

 

Thanks for the input, all. You're right about the overstuffed seat boopiejones. Seating height needs to come down. If I lower the column on the firewall though I'll roughly end up back where I started since the header pipe is in the way. I knew this was a bit crazy but my effort was to find a more comfortable driving position. Previously the angle of the wheel felt like I was driving my John Deere. Well a CJ is more tractor than sports car so maybe I leave well enough alone. The other issue was making the later CJ pedals work. I have them clamped approximately at the same location as they were originally. I spotted the column so it cleared the pedals. Did the AMC long-nose CJ have less angle on the column than the pre-'72 ones? It would seems the column came through the firewall higher up when I measured the later tub but I need to check. I was hoping to use the hanging pedals without modification but after some research on this site and others it may not be possible.

 

I ditched my underseat tank to give a better ride position with aftermarket seats. I tried to install a tilt steering wheel with underseat mounting and it was not satisfactory for me. I finally rear mounted my tank, sunk my seat down and installed a speedway column. Now it's great.

 

I currently have two tanks. I have a Conn Ferr tank in the rear. Maybe I ditch the stock tank.

 

I took these photos to illustrate the problem. The first one shows the original 52 degree angle to the column and the bus-like wheel position. You had to drive this with the tilt all the way down. The second photo is the same as my earlier post but it's actually closer to 35 degrees not 42 as I originally stated. This resulted in lacing the shaft through the header. The third shows a 42 degree angle which I understand is stock for an early CJ ( 65 CJ5 - I don't fit!! ). If I take the dash cut out as a given and apply a 42 degree angle I end up in the middle of the header pipe. I know this has been hashed and rehashed here and I've canvassed the Saginaw-Headers posts but there is generally no photos of the resultant driving position. Does anyone with a V6 and headers have photos showing the angle of the column handy?

 

I have a 198 with forward dumping manifold and a Saginaw conversion. My seats are thin aluminum kirkeys, which are surprisingly comfortable. I’m pretty sure that the positioning of my steering column would put the shaft well below headers.

 

If the bottom was longer it would put the lower joint near the frame allowing for a flatter shaft angle and less interference with the headers.

 

I agree with this. Just build your shaft with easy disassembly points, and it’ll be a non-issue.