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Suspension CRAZY STIFF!!! Advice?!?!

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by SAMracing7, May 4, 2010.

  1. May 5, 2010
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    David, I think he is talking about how to separate spring leaves, and not the rivets holding the hangar to the frame.

    So as you said, it is a bolt & nut that holds the leaves together. The typical way to remove leaves is to use two strong C-clamps.
    Put the c-clamps on the spring pack and tighten them down. Remove any "keepers" or slide them up to the end of the longest leaf and secure them. Remove the bolt (centering pin) and nut. Then slowly back off the c-clamps until the spring pack is no longer under compression. Remove desired leaves from pack. Reverse the process.
     
  2. May 5, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I wouldn't go up to 6" shackles. It won't solve the basic problem and will just cause handling issues like negative caster, more leverage on the frame and spring mounts, etc. Might try driving it around and flexing the suspension as much as possible. New springs have a break in period and will normally "settle in" and start working smoother and easier once broken in.
     
  3. May 5, 2010
    sawedoffcj6

    sawedoffcj6 The Gunsmith

    minnesota
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    May 5, 2010
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    I agree 6" is too long for shackles. Too long and they can cam over and lock. which always no fun on the trail. When I tried it on mine, The change was enough to destroy both my rear springs (1-3/4" wide and foreseeable being as they are attached to a heavy d60) the first time i tried to negotiate a stubborn log. Also, bear in mind it would change the pinion angle. I'm not saying it can't be done i'm just suggesting that if it does get done, one might have to also install link type anti-rotational traction control ("ladder bars") and compensate for pinion angle by either rotating the spring perches or use spacing wedges.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  4. May 5, 2010
    SAMracing7

    SAMracing7 Maughan-ster

    Anchorage Alaska
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    Apr 20, 2010
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    Hmmm.......Im going to remove a leaf and see what that does.

    To me, it seams like something in binding up. it has gotten a little better after i tried flexed the crap out of it will my Hi-lift jack. straped it to a wheel and jacked it all the way up on the right front. the left rear only compressed 1 to 2 in. which brings me to my next question.

    What is a good way to check articulation of the suspension?

    i know there is some formula out there to determine some score with a ramp. dont know too much details about it.

    anyone care to endulge some info on this subject matter?

    Thanks
    SSgt. Robert D. Maughan, USAF
    Elmendorf AFB, Anchorage, AK:flag:
     
  5. May 5, 2010
    sawedoffcj6

    sawedoffcj6 The Gunsmith

    minnesota
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    well the way we test it around here is to build an "RTI" ramp and drive or back one wheel onto it. Although, if you have a fork lift hand that works as well.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  6. May 6, 2010
    cookieman

    cookieman Member

    Colton,Calif
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    I still think it the springs because he say that angle was pointed in. with the shackles pointed in . the springs first try to delivers all energy to mount before caming over and bending...did you measure the springs straight across the springs or did you measure along the curve of the springs I had the same thing with my 74 ..the shackles were pointed back in about 5* and it was rock hard and all i did was to change the springs and it is great now.
     
  7. May 7, 2010
    sawedoffcj6

    sawedoffcj6 The Gunsmith

    minnesota
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    May 5, 2010
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    Are you sure it wasn't the frame and body mounts loosing up rather than the springs? These old jeep frames can be pretty flexy (even to the point of cracking) I chose to do a lot of frame supporting to increase torsional rigidity.
     
  8. May 7, 2010
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
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    I think the key piece of info in all this is that his shackles aren't facing the correct direction. If I read this correctly, his rear shackle would be facing this direction / and not this direction \ if we are looking at the drivers side of the Jeep with the front to the left and the rear to the right. If that's the case, the spring is all bound up and will ride terribly. Is that the case or am I up in the night? We need some pics for sure.
     
  9. May 8, 2010
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    how are the shocks.....
     
  10. May 8, 2010
    SAMracing7

    SAMracing7 Maughan-ster

    Anchorage Alaska
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    Apr 20, 2010
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    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Back Shackel

    [​IMG]
    Front Shackel

    The shocks were cleaned up and good. moved smooth! thinking new bushings on the springs! they may have given out a little and allowed the shackel to move back.

    What do yall thing?
     
  11. May 8, 2010
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Those springs are mighty thick, and the second to the main leaf is really long. Your shackle angles aren't too bad.
    Those springs are where your problem lies, IMO.
     
  12. May 9, 2010
    cookieman

    cookieman Member

    Colton,Calif
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    your spring are rusted together,spray them with pb blaster or another lube,and see if that helps
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  13. May 9, 2010
    unclebill

    unclebill Banned

    a sun blasted...
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    pat
    i will pick springs for $200 please
     
  14. May 12, 2010
    SAMracing7

    SAMracing7 Maughan-ster

    Anchorage Alaska
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    $200.........you know what i will have to do for my wife to get that!!!?!?!?!

    so what if i hacked off the second spring back a little?

    someone at my work center mentioned that those springs are stiffer because they account for the weight of a V-8 not the in-line 6
     
  15. May 12, 2010
    80cj

    80cj Member

    Hawaii
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    Try removing the bottom leaf. I read on another forum where a fellow did that to his Pro Comps and it softened things up a little. If spring wrap becomes a problem, you can always put it back.
     
  16. May 12, 2010
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    How tight are the shackle bolts? Are you cranking them down tight?

    IIRC, most of the aftermarket shackles recommend only ~20 ft/lbs of torque, with new nylock nuts. That allows the shackle to move pretty freely in response to spring loads and will soften the ride. I'm not sure of the spec for the factory shackles, but they have to be loose enough to move...
     
  17. May 12, 2010
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Don't cut the springs. Remove leaves, starting from the bottom leaf toward the top. Shorter shackles, not longer, will make the angle better - those look a lot like factory shackles though.
     
  18. May 12, 2010
    jslamerman

    jslamerman New Member

    San Diego, CA
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    Thats funnay, because that inline 6 is mighty heavy, weighs more than some V8s..........
     
  19. May 12, 2010
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
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    The other thing you might want to do it disassemble the leaf packs, lightly sand them to remove any roughness and apply a thin layer of grease between the springs so they are able to move more freely across each other and flex more smoothly. You can also consider taking out a leaf at that point. I think you'd be surprised what a difference that leaf spring maintenance will make...
     
  20. May 12, 2010
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    I doubt it. Listings for the 232/258 that I've seen puts it at 40 lb less than an AMC V8, which in turn is lighter than the 60s-70s SBC.

    This myth may come from the comparison of the Chevy 216/235 engine to the SBC - they were offered at the same time, but the 235 is an older design. The later AMC engines are lighter still, being newer designs. Casting technology improved as the years went by, and blocks got lighter. From a design standpoint, I don't see any reason an inline 6 could not be lighter than a V8, since the V8 has 2 more cylinders to surround with iron, and it has 4 end cylinders instead of 2. There may be a weight advantage to the shorter crank of a V8, but a V8 also has a valley of iron between the banks. My feeling is that an inline 6 would be quite a lot lighter than a V8 of the same bore and stroke, all other factors the same.

    Here's a chart of engine weights, though I wouldn't take it as gospel http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt - so much depends on the 'dress' of the engine, that it's hard to make an exact comparison
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
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