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Front Disc Conversion Turned Into Front Axle Work

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Fresbone, Nov 14, 2022.

  1. Nov 14, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Fresno, California
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    I am nearing the end of a tear down (frame is currently being blasted and primed) and was prepping the front differential housing for blasting and painting. I removed the locking hubs, drum, hub, and brake backing plate, and off popped the spindle and out came the axle. I was not planning to do the entire front axle right now, but everything is pretty gunked up so it is probably for the best to do so right now.

    The deeper bearing and cup and oil seal are still in the hubs. Do I need to press them out or will they come out when I remove the old grease? My I ordered new bearings and seals with my kit from Horsepower.

    It sonds like diesel fuel will be the best way to clean the greasy axles, hubs, and lockers, but all of the reasonably priced parts washers I have found say for aqueous solutions only. What do you use to hold the diesel fuel for cleaning?

    Horsepower recommends white lithium grease for the lockers. Can I also use that for the bearings? I read that Focker uses John Deere corn head grease. What about the axle U joints?

    I am planning to blast and paint the axle and differential housing. Any slick ways to protect the polished part of what I think is the axle housing that the knuckle rotates around? I am assuming that is a no paint area.

    While I have it this far, how much else should I do, or what can I get away with not doing? Steering knuckle oil seals? Bearing cones and rollers?

    All help is appreciated.
     
  2. Nov 14, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    If you’re that deep, I would replace kingpin bearings and races.

    For the inboard hub bearing, pull the old seal and the bearing comes out easily.
    For your inner bearing races, I don’t know. Mine were still very smooth so I cleaned the existing bearings and re used them.

    Your “spheres”, mask them off for painting and I just polished them with some 600 wet/dry. The knuckle lube will keep them “wet”.

    As for cleaning and de greasing, don’t do it my way if you have better options. I use “Zep”, a shipload of elbow grease and gallons of hot water, but all I have for cleaning is a basin sink in the garage.

    For my locking hubs ( Cutlass, very simple) I cleaned and gave everything a generous smathering of Lucas Red and Tacky.
    That’s all I’ve got!
    Andy
     
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  3. Nov 14, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    No the wheel bearings use regular bearing grease. They need to be cleaned & packed with grease, don't just smear the grease on them. The Corn Head grease is something that some people use in the steering knuckles. Others use a mixture of grease and gear oil (search for "knuckle pudding")
     
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  4. Nov 14, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Fresno, California
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    I get that the bearings need to be packed. I have watched videos on that. Looks like the knuckle is not “packed” but there is a huge glob of grease in it. Any guidelines to how much knuckle grease to use and how to apply it?
     
  5. Nov 14, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    you fill the knuckle with lube to the fill plug....2wt grease is too thick to allow lube to move up to the upper kingpin bearing, and the typical gear lube (even up to 140wt) has trouble staying behind the knuckle seals, so there is a lot of discussion on knuckle lubrication - as Doug said, lots under the search for knuckle pudding. Some use cornhead grease. Places like TSC has a 00wt grease or a cotton picker spindle grease. Biggest thing - check the kingpin bearings as they struggle for lube (especially the upper ones) and are often neglected by the PO. If good, clean and pack them with fresh wheel bearing grease. I would also recommend looking into a knuckle stud conversion especially if you haven't already, or if you are running larger tires etc.
     
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  6. Nov 14, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2022 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Don't use "grease" in the steering knuckles. Look up "knuckle pudding".
     
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  7. Nov 14, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    The closed knuckles originally used gear lube (90 or 140) that always leaked out around the globe seals. The axle u-joint caught and threw the gear oil around, lubricating the upper kingpin bearing.
    Most folks put something thicker in there so as to slow any leakage, but this usually didn’t lube that upper bearing very well.
    I personally use black moly grease used in German CV joints (think VW), but it is very messy when it gets on you. I fill the housing from a squeeze tube a little higher than the fill plug. Its not quite a liquid, but will act almost like a thick oil.
    -Donny
     
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  8. Nov 14, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    You can use a punch from the outside of the hub to remove that inner race. There are a couple of indents in the hub race seat for doing that. You will see them after removing a bunch of grease. That will also remove the seal for you. A bearing/race driver is the best way to re-install but a proper OD socket will get the job done. I don't like using new races or bearings paired with used pieces. You defeat a lot of the purpose you were replacing them to start with.

    As for the kingpin bearings, that upper bearing is usually the first to go. That trend is significantly exacerbated using lockout hubs. When they are not locked, no lube is getting thrown on the bearing.
     
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  9. Nov 14, 2022
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
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    I was looking for cheap knuckle bearings and found out the numbers are 11590/11520 for harley swing arms. They work good. and use oo grease from tsc. I still havnt come up with a clean way to pump it in or know the amount they take. Because you cant really tell how much youve got in there it doesnt settle to the bottom.
     
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  10. Nov 14, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I've had good luck packing grease on the bearings and seals then using gear oil to fill the cavity. If oil washes the grease off a part it's obviously getting enough to lubricate. If oil doesn't splash it off it would need greased anyway.
    If it gets low than I add 140w oil. For the kingpins Remember to use Harley Davison swing arm bearings. Jeep parts are expensive and when you go to the store you can really mess with em getting jeep rotors, chevy pads, Ford hub seal, international wheel bearings, Harley swing arm bearings.
     
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  11. Nov 30, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Fresno, California
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    Well, you can’t believe everything you read on Amazon, because diesel fuel did just fine in my “water-based solvents” parts washer. Everything is looking pretty spic and span.

    What would you guys do with the u-joints that were soaked in the parts washer if they seem like they are otherwise ok?

    1. Leave them alone. New grease from the knuckles will work it’s way into the u-joints.
    2. Take ‘em apart, clean, and repack the pins since I’m already this deep.
    3. Install new u-joints.
    4. Other.

    If I do buy new u-joints, do they usually come packed with grease?
    Thanks.
    -Fritz 8C02D990-980C-4B90-B065-3EEA434347E2.jpeg E59719C7-0250-4037-A905-0E55D8DD9EB4.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
  12. Nov 30, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Option 2
     
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  13. Nov 30, 2022
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I'm with Doug at a minimum. You may want to swap them for new once you spin and check them close.
     
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  14. Nov 30, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Definitely pack em with grease new or old. If you are using knuckle pudding use the same grease.
     
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  15. Nov 30, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I ordered "closed knuckle lubricant" from torque king for the knuckles. I also ordered Castrol Pyroplex Protection ES 2 Synthetic Grease for the bearings.
     
  16. Nov 30, 2022
    Dale Park

    Dale Park Member

    Utah
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    I found PSC1000 from Tractor Supply works very good in a parts washer. Diesel works and is cheaper, but I drain/filter my PSC1000 after I am done with it and put it back in the 5gal container for next time.
     
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  17. Dec 1, 2022
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Active Member

    Eagle Point oregon
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    Upper knuckle bearings:
    Early Bronco's used an open knuckle D30 front axle. They ran a small steel "seal" disk at the bottom of the bearing well. I installed a set of these in my CJ back in the early 90's. The thought was to pack the upper bearing and seal it in, since it doesn't get lubed often due to the locking hubs. I wound up having to add a bunch of shims to offset the added thickness of the disc, but the upper bearing has stayed lubed with no rust or moisture.

    Might be a thought for anybody running locking hub that are rarely engaged.
     
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  18. Dec 3, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Fresno, California
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    Rainy day project. Clean parts. ABC82DEF-07EE-40BE-9C83-3542C064BD59.jpeg 37C1066C-2865-493D-B6C7-3EAF5B67F562.jpeg
     
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  19. Dec 3, 2022
    Fresbone

    Fresbone Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Should I be surprised that there are three shims on the drivers side upper kingpin and only two on the passenger side?
     
  20. Dec 3, 2022
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
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    Iv had more bad lower bearings than top ones. Because all the junk collects at the bottom.
     
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