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Another Dauntless Clutch Conundrum

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 46ODDFIRE, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Jun 12, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Hey stuff happens.............keep in mind that your clutch linkage system , be it mechanical, hydraulic , or cable each has and effective mechanical travel length...........and each one of these systems lengths can be different based on hydraulic bore sizes, ratios at any given point & wear Etc;...............point is if you had too much "Free Play" statically that would also effect the total travel length at the other end of the spectrum which is the amount of travel needed to properly push the throw out bearing against the pressure plate and fully release the clutch.............that number needed at the clutch fingers?.........on average about .400"-.625" on a well maintained system..........and don't think just cause you can see the linkage outside of the clutch can moving the throw out fork a greater amount gets you out of the woods , cause the ratio at the clutch fork arm and ball inside the can changes ratios to 2:1 meaning whatever it moves outside is only moving 1/2 that amount inside....and adjustable throw out bearing collar as mentioned above can be helpful to take up that extra little bit of slack..............
     
  2. Jun 12, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    I'll admit, I've been thinking, "I've removed enough stuff, and I shouldn't ask for more trouble." But I'm sure your right.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  3. Jun 12, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Ah, I see. Yes, mine is different, all right. I'll post a similar photo when is all is cleaned up.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2018
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    So, while we're talking about that return spring.....is it still needed with a hydraulic clutch (slave cylinder on the clutch fork)? Never really dawned me to ask until now. I assume not but I'm wrong A LOT.
     
  5. Jun 12, 2018
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    From the hyd clutch systems I have seen, yes you would need a return spring.
     
  6. Jun 12, 2018
    CJ Joe

    CJ Joe Truckhaven Tough!

    Pinon Hills, CA
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    Nov 9, 2002
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    Yes the return spring is needed in all systems. In other words there is no mechanical force to retract the throwout bearing, fork and linkage slack from that point in the system. A return spring is also needed at the pedal for the same reasons.
     
    Daryl and Walt Couch like this.
  7. Jun 14, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Another question for the wise men:

    My clutch disc itself looks good to me. And I have every reason to believe it very few miles on it.

    How thick should it be?

    Mine is .3 inches thick, give or take a .01. On one hand, it's nuts to pull all this stuff and not replace the disc. On the other hand, it's nuts to replace a disc that isn't worn... And I know this one fits!
     
  8. Jun 14, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Looks is one thing.............If you fried the throw out bearing more than likely the clutch slipped for the period of the time that it took to eat the bearing........and once they slip..........they normally will get a glaze on the surface of the friction material on both sides........................also a similar glaze may also get on both the steel flywheel and pressure plate..........using a DA type sander will normally clean up the metal surfaces...............cleaning / cutting the disc is hard unless you have the proper equipment to hold it and cut it flat..
     
  9. Jun 15, 2018
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I'm with Tarry - my rule is if a clutch component has gone out - I replace it all. When I was younger, my Dad was, shall we say frugal... I pulled the clutch on things more times than I want to repeat due to not replacing it all the first time.

    If the fly wheel has color - I sand it and check with straight edge. If that does not get it right or I see ripples - it goes to the machine shop for a resurface.
     
    fhoehle and 46ODDFIRE like this.
  10. Jun 15, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Yeah... I based my question on the fact that the whole clutch system, inside the bellhousing, at least) was all replaced very few miles (though many years) ago. But I'm sure you are correct. My dad, by the way, was also frugal. Lots of baling wire -- and I mean actual wire from hay bales.
     
  11. Jun 15, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    If I recall correctly the factory thickness for driven disk is specified at.305".
    But I may be recalling earlier disk specs...
    I can double check if it matters.....
    I have been frugal myself and yes its certainly a gamble unless your certain that the disk has very low hours..
     
  12. Jun 15, 2018
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor

    DC
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    I am getting the last parts I need for my T18 install together and its about time to order my clutch. I always buy LUK brand clutches and really do enjoy their performance and price. Did you just buy the regular replacement LUK clutch for your model or did you find something else? How is the pedal feel with the centerforce?
     
  13. Jun 15, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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  14. Jun 15, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    I got a re-manufactured pressure plate that oldtime found on eBay and a bearing that he had. I am tempted to compare with something like the LUK -- It's easy to find, and probably easier to work. I just want to make sure all parts are the same depth, thickness, etc. I don't want to mess with the linkage geometry and so on. Adjustments are one thing. I don't want to suddenly need a different fork/pivot ball combination, for example. I hope that made sense. Again, a lot of this goes back to the fact that I don't have a "model," to go by, I have a hodge-hodge my dad and his friends put together in the early '70s. I'm a ways from re-assembling, in part because I'm trying to clean and paint everything, in part because I'm learning as I go, so I'm going slowly.
     
  15. Jun 15, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    No need to double-check. Thanks. My brother's mechanic (my brother is since deceased) says he replaced the clutch about six years ago, along with some other work. But my brother lost interest in the project (long story), and the Jeep sat parked, indoors, thank goodness, until I got it in December 2016. So I do think my clutch plate has very low miles.
     
  16. Jun 15, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    What you got from me and from eBay should be virtual identical replacement parts to what you had to start with. (standard factory components)
    Like Warlock said .. make sure your flywheel looks good, and I expect that you'll be in good shape.
     
  17. Jun 16, 2018
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I would have to go get my notes on the exact model I put in. At one point I was looking at LuK PP and Centerforce Disc. I was showing the neighbor how soft the setup is right now with they hydraulic pedal setup I put in it as it works great. The wife prefers it (in the '49) to the setup I used in the '51 with the SM465.
     
  18. Jun 17, 2018
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Exactly! The best reason for me switching to a diaphragm setup is that I will eventually hand this Jeep off to my daughter.
     
  19. Jun 18, 2018
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    The setup I'm running on the '49 is from Rock Auto for a 78 CJ5 5.0 - Sachs K167506 My notes say the LUK was out of stock so I went with this setup.

    Not sure if its all the clutch itself, or the fact that I run swinging pedals as well. This one has Wilwood pedals, MC and Speedway pull Slave cyl for it.
     
  20. Jun 18, 2018
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor

    DC
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    How come you elected to use the 304 clutch with your 225?
     
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