1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Tales From The Oil Pan. - Now With Video

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Buildflycrash, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Oct 24, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,559
    Well I dropped the pan and it’s a very short story.

    Had the usual small amount of fine metal particles and this one larger (but still tiny) chunk.

    [​IMG]

    I’ve put only 5000 miles one it but the PO seemed to have changed only the #6 piston. :confused:
    The rods all had a small amount of side to side play. Nothing loose or large difference between the Rods.

    [​IMG]


    The rest of the story-

    The engine started knocking on my recent trip to the Smokies. Not constant in the beginning but I could definitely feel a little loss of power each knock. It kept getting worse during the 6 day trip. The engine was down maybe 25-30% of power by the end. (Over 400 miles of mostly road driving).

    I checked the timing was right on at 5*. The plugs were about the same as usual- rich on the passenger side lean(ish) on the driver side.

    Oil pressure hasn’t changed. 10-15 lbs When idling warm and 25lbs at 50mph or above.

    :confused: What do y’all think? :confused:
     
  2. Oct 24, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    What type of metal is the chunk? (magnetic or not, etc?)

    Still has pressure, but loosing power... cam related?
     
  3. Oct 24, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,559
    One thing I changed before the trip was the distributor cap. I don’t remember if the numbers on the old cap corresponded to the correct cylinder but it is definitely off by one cylinder now. It’s a regular odd fire cap with even spaced pickups on the inside. I’ve triple checked the timing and quadruple checked the wires are to the correct cylinders.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Oct 24, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,559
    Interesting, not metal/magnetic at all. Then I tapped it with the hammer and dust. Carbon deposit flaked off.
     
  5. Oct 24, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,627
    It's worth doing compression and leak down tests.

    Since one bank is different from the other, I would verify that's an odd-fire cap (but that wouldn't have gotten worse over the course of the trip).

    You could also have a cam lobe going flat. Might be worth pulling the valve covers and see if any of the rockers are moving noticeably less than the others.
     
  6. Oct 24, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,137
    Did you ever pull a plug wire one at a time to see if you noticed anything different with the engine? The way the knock sounded and how it only does it under load made me think of the crankshaft. It's usually a dull metallic sound but a loss of oil pressure is usually noted. Does it make noise when you push the clutch in and out?

    Another thing you can do is Rev the engine up and turn the key off until it almost stops and then turn it back on. Listen for a noise.
     
  7. Oct 24, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,559
    Would theses cause the knocking?
     
  8. Oct 25, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,169
    I'd wager even money you have some sort of ignition issue.
    I've seen metal bits in pickups before. I'm convinced older engines occasionally shed casting flash. If it's not bearing material or ring pieces I wouldn't fret. I've been shocked by the lifter valley casting flash in some engines.
     
    cj3may likes this.
  9. Oct 25, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,627
    None of those items should cause a knock, but a knock won't cause a loss in power. Those tests are to assess if anything else is wrong with the motor. A flat cam might cause a tick, but not really a knock.

    Like 73 cj5 said if the bottom end is going, usually the oil pressure will be low. You can pull a rod cap or two and see if there is any copper showing and/or use some plastigage to check clearances.
     
  10. Oct 25, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,627
    If you haven't had a motor apart before, be sure to keep the rod caps with the rod they came from and in the same orientation they were before. And of course, torque them properly when reassembling.
     
  11. Oct 25, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,627
    Scott,

    73 cj5 shared your video with me. It sounds really bad and there is something seriously wrong.

    If it were me, I'd pull the motor and disassemble it. The problem should be obvious once it's apart and I don't think it's anything you can fix in the Jeep.

    At least you have a good core right now. Run it much longer and I'm not sure you'll have that.
     
  12. Oct 25, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    If not magnetic I would look at the timing chain. May have stretched or dropped some teeth and jumped a tooth or two. Will effect cam timing causing manu of the symptoms you describe. Easy to check without disassembling much of anything.
    Regarding connecting rod side play, there is a specification for that you can check with a simple feeler gauge.
     
    jeep2003 and Rich M. like this.
  13. Oct 25, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    If the timing is way off, pre-igntion or "detonation" knocking could be severe. And cause loss of power. But I'd expect the spark plugs to look "hot."
     
    jeep2003 likes this.
  14. Oct 25, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,559
    I forgot about the video.

     
  15. Oct 25, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    Ummmm, that's pretty low oil pressure. Noise.....bad.
     
    71CJ54WD likes this.
  16. Oct 25, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,407
    yep . engine tear down . along with rod bearing knock . piston wrist pin will knock too
    now that speedometer . pull cable and pump some graphite in it . one day it's going to hit 100 plus
     
  17. Oct 25, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    Just to be sure... that is not an exhaust leak noise?

    But at one point I did hear a deeper knock, like a bearing. :(
     
  18. Oct 25, 2020
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Well-Known Member

    Republic of Texas
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,900
    Tear into it. That’s a bad knock. The longer you go with it, the worse it will be on other components. Been there, done that, with my F134
     
  19. Oct 25, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    Yes, or break off the needle from the bouncing.
     
  20. Oct 25, 2020
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,918
    yeah sounds like a bad case of spark knock to me. Its common for the original timing gear to eat itself. Thats what that piece is you found I think
     
    PeteL likes this.
New Posts