Condition of 401 opinions please

OK, so I've finally got to working on the actual motor. Here is the story I was told. It was reciently rebuilt for Mud racing. Not real, dude has lots of money rebuild but, bubba rebuilt it for mud racing. I was told it has about 3 races on it before the dude decided to go with a more powerful motor. He sold it to.....Bill. Bill had little experience with motors and was paying another guy to install the motor in his Waggie after he blew the orgional 360.

Bill ran out of cash and the install never got finished. The block has been painted so I know it was out of the waggie. When Ipulled the motor, some stuff was not right. For instance, the torque converter was not bolted to the motor at all. All that held the tranny to the motor was the 6 bellhousing bolts. Maybe the 727 torque converter should not be bolted?

Anyway, some of what the dude says makes since but some does not. So here are some picts. Here is the link to the whole album.

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc19/aallison28/401 build picts/

Please take a looka and let me know wnat you thing. TOmorrow I'll pull the intake manifold off.

Here are a couple picts........







Here is the oil pan. THer was a kinda...white looking sluge in the pan. It felt like a petrolum product. No girt or anything I felt in the pan. And it was not seperated like it was water. This stuff has me worried. Any chance it was assembly lube?


So what do you guys think on a first look? Does the story I was told even come close to standing up?

 

But if the motor has less than an hour or two run time, could it still be there?

 

Looks like it got a little water in it. Stands to reason if it was mud raced. It probably came in from outside, but I'd sure check the head gaskets.:v6:

 

So I need to pull the head's off? Didn't really want to do that. Course then I can look at the cylinder walls. But I really didn't want to do that. Do I need to pull the timing cover off and all that?

I'm not much of an internal motor mechanic. I can change water pumps, oil pumps, etc. But I've not pulled to many heads off. Especially the old V8's. Ok, I pulled the head off my Samurai and, wtih help, got it running again. BUt I understaand the theory.

Honestly, I can pull the heads but if it needs more internal work, I'll take it to the dude that works on my cars when I don't want to. He builds race cars so he knows a thing or two. And I trust him. But hopefully, if need be, I'll pull the heads and everything will be fine and I'll get a gasket set and put it all back together.

 

I understand your hesitant, but mud racing is hard on motors. So many things can go wrong. The motors are pushed to the limit of their RPMs, they get hot from plugged radiator fins, water goes everywhere in the engine compartment, and that same water splashes hot metal causing cracks, warpage, and other things you wouldn't even guess. Plus while probably a potent motor the 401 is right at the limit of a small block. Given all that, if it were me, I'd pull the heads and check both the block and head mating surface for warpage. I'd also do a dye check for cracks. If nothings wrong all you're out is the gasket set and the dye and some of your buddies time. A small price to pay for peace of mind.:v6:

 

Got to go with grannyscj. Do the dye check. Was in sand-land running a bit warm and had to do a water crossing. It cause some cracking that later caused us do do a bit of walking. If we had waited a few minutes to let the engine normalize there would have been no issues. hey, when you are in a hurry things happen...

 

I agree with pulling and checking it. Also have you done a compression test?.
Out West here we must do things different! maybe you guys can clarify.
So this thing has supposably 100 miles on it for mud racing! It was built for mud racing!
Back East do you just slap these things together and go run them? We don't have the "MUD" race world you guys do but all race engines get broke in before racing otherwise they are junk within the first few races. (any kind of racing)
Maybe you rebuild between races?! or run them till they brake and hope they don't.
That motor to me does not look like a "Race engine". I am not seeing a whole lot of aftermarket upgrades that I would think would be done while you were building a engine. plus I think I still see a points Dist sitting on it. I would think that would be one of the first to go around Mud and Water!
I think the guy is yankin your chain and it may have had a Valve job or something done to it. How about receipts for parts they used.
Everyone has a different idea of "REBUILT".

 

If it was my .02 I would take it to a shop for a DD rebuild. Build it for miles not power. 401 will give more than enough power for a CJ, really I would think a Wagy also.

 

Ok, so I pulled the heads. It was ugly fast.






But, I spent a while with a rag and some WD40. I think it cleaned up good.

And hear is what I learned. Each piston is marked .030 so I assume it's was bored 30 over. And since I can still read the .030, and the pistion's and walls cleaned up with just a rag, and the heads cleaned up with just a rag and WD40, and I think I can see cross hatching in the cylinders, and the valves are real clean as is the new felpro gasket set I took out, I believe it was rebuilt and only has a bit of water inside, not a lot of water.

SO here is the plan.

I feel pretty good about what I did today. I think I might be able, with help, to get this back together with out a complete rebuild. I plan on taking most of it apart and giving it a good cleanig. I'll drop the block off to my buddy that works on my cars and I'll have him pull the pistons, hone the cylinders, and put it back together if it specs out. And I believe it will. I felt no ridges on the walls but I kjnow when I cleaned up the crap out of the pistions, I mushed goo between the pistons and the cylinder walls. So I don't want to rotate the crankshaft. I'll let Robert pull the pistions out the bottom.

So with a good cleaning and a little luck, I think I can salvage most of it.

Or at worst, I get to completely rebuild everything...............

More picts here: http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc19/aallison28/401 build picts/

BUt at least I'll get it taken care of and I know the motor will be ready.

 

What Steve said also. Check the rods over closely too, make sure it didn't hydraulic. I'd pull the two that had the rust, check the wrist pins and keepers, make sure there's no deflection of the rods. I'd also use new head bolts, those may have stretched a little.:v6:

 

Rods look like new. Very little to no wear on the ends. Ran the parts washer solvent through it and it was clean with no restrictions in the rod. Very little wear on the underside of the rocker where the rods would rub on the end. All the parts cleaned up very well, and I saw no damage or wear on any of them.

 

Actually, I'm talking about the connecting rods. If a piston hydraulics it will deflect the connecting rod, sometimes it'll deflect it right out the side of the block. Yours is obviously not that bad, but I'd definitely check the rods on the2 cylinders that had the rusty water and their wrist pins . Make sure they are not broke or bent.:v6:

 

Oh, got you. I was wondering but I was thinking if the water in the cyl would hold the valve closed, the push rod might bend.

That is why I'm going to take it to my mechanic dude to check that part out.

Course I'm feeling my oats and armed wtih about 4 different sevice manuals I think I can do it myself. At least most of it..........

 

Valves open under low compression, intake valve actually opens under vacuum to suck the fuel/air mixture in. On the exhaust stroke the valve is open while piston pushes the spent gases out. A bent push rod will only happen if you jump time and you get piston slap.:v6:

 

Around here we call that a "core" hope you didn't pay much




this is the core I bought and payed to much for. good luck on the project.

 

Or you rev that bad boy way to high. Check the redline for that motor is pretty low IIRC.