Howell Efi - Iso 225 Odd-fire V6 Crank Trigger Bracket, Have You Made One?

Of course!

 

Price quote arrived from the fab shop today. If it receives approval from On High, next step is to crunch out a test piece to send to our mystery volunteer for the final official stamp of approval. If that goes smooth, then it's time to boogie. Hang in there gang, looks like this might just happen.

 

If you need a 2nd test guinea pig, I'm your huckleberry

 

........ Just wonderin' & I see that you have this solved, but would the crank sensor bracket for a 231 Buick work ? There's plenty of them out there ?

 

What 231 used an external crank sensor bracket?

 

Circa 87 they started using them. I looked at this but the reluctor has a lot more nodes as they were controlling timing too.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-pc8
They are listed for the GN turbo Regals etc.
These are common on the fwd 3800 engined cars, not a direct bolt up to our covers. I assume it could be cobbled up.

 

Gotcha, thanks. Didn’t think about the Grand Nationals. The later model 3800’s are a completely different animal. Especially the transverse models.

 

My 1984 Turbo SFI 231 has one......Yes, it's outta a GN

 

I started looking harder at this. Do you have a distributor or coil packs? I think the sensor and bracket will bolt up. I'm not sure what kind of signal it gives ( Hall effect?) and the reluctor is way different.

 

My laptop is being a slug today, I hope the image uploaded ok.
Finally picked up the initial prototype, and looks ok other than having to mill some clearance around the sensor. Now it's off to our illustrious volunteer Walter Breck for an actual test-fit. If everything is good, back to the fab shop for the clearance update and then proceed to bang a bunch out for the masses. A HUGE thank you to Walt for having the patience to do without his custom bracket while the new piece is being worked out. He's on the forum here somewhere, not sure of his screen name.
It's a funky-looking thing, like a salamander in bad need of a chiropractor. It will double as a fuel pump block-off plate as well as a crank sensor bracket. Ugly, but should do the trick.

 

Need some more information!
Is there a trigger wheel? Or does this use the harmonic balancer and put ferrous material on the vibration ring? Or?

I have had three 225 engines, all supposedly original, all had differently shaped harmonic balancers.



Dennis

 

Oh, NOW you tell me!
The bracket is to hold a crank sensor behind the balancer with customer-supplied bolts (or whatever you decide to use to trigger the sensor) installed into every 4th hole of the 12 holes machined into it from the factory. This is the first I've heard of different balancers. Since people have had to fabricate homemade brackets, this will hopefully save all the hassle of doing that. If there are variations on the factory balancer ring, at least it will be a big step in the right direction, with hopefully minor mods to fit.

I could use another opinion on the balancer subject above, if you don't mind. If your outer ring has holes machined in from the factory, how many do you have? You get 10 extra points if you say '12' and mean it. Thanks! - Dan

 

I will look when I get home

 

I'm not generally a fuel injection guy, but this certainly has my interest!

 

Here is a picture I have from my in-laws rig. The frame is v6 but who knows if this is the original balancer.

 

That balancer has the 12 holes needed. At least it looks like 12, can't see all the way around. The pulley bolted onto the front doesn't matter, maybe that's what Dennis was referring to.

 

12 holes on my 225.

 

To help with understanding, here are two of mine.
First smooth front and back with 12 holes.

The second is factory as is the first.




Second recesses on front and (sorry bad pic) a large protrusion on the back which is in line with the diameter of the holes.
note ferrous iron in the holes will not work on the second unless they stick beyond the protrusion.


Has anyone thought of the effect of more mass in the ring that is supposed to move to help the engine’s balance?

Thoughts about the differences?

Warloch, have only had 3 engines and the one I gave away before moving was similar to the second, but an iron outer ring like the first but like the aluminum one it also had protrusions on the back in the diameter of the holes.

all were verifiedOF by their block #s


I could use the first one (assuming good enough shape)

possibly a second way is to use the “ holes” , count them if the FI was programmable enough to divide by 4 to obtain the required count of three. Assuming the sensor can differentiate between the holes and rest of the ring. This one I like best as no impact to balance, use this bracket if close enough to the ring’s surface with sensor. Still requires first harmonic.

Anyone who has done the FI, is the “trigger” count programmable?

Dennis

note JW60 balancer is likely like my second pic.

JW60 - are there protrusions on the back ofyours?

 

Adding bolts/nuts/studs to the balancer would add a small amount to the overall mass, but as long as they are symmetrical (4 90* apart, or 3 120* apart) they wouldn't affect balance, assuming they were identical parts.
The uneven signal picked up from the tach feed is what's causing the ECM to throw fits and hunt for an idle speed it can never get. 3 or 4 evenly spaced 'triggers' on the balancer would cure this problem, eliminating the need for a tach signal at all to the ecm. Nothing much to do with injector signal. Even with the wonky pulse to the injectors, the fuel all comes in above the throttle plates, not into the ports like an MPI system. The timing on tbi injectors isn't that critical, just as long as the correct amount of fuel is delivered. If the ignition was controlled by the ECM as well, then the balancer would require 3 evenly spaced triggers for 6 cylinders.