No Spark (Dauntless V6)

ok, i feel like a a$$ after the last post i made, 4 stroke is as follows, TDC compression stroke is firing mode, sends piston to BDC with enough force to send it back to TDC, the stroke between BDC to TDC is the exaust stroke the firing mode is called the power stroke, when it returns to BDC is called the intake stroke, its just a big ole pump, intake stroke,compression stroke, power stroke exaust stroke, you get the idea?

 

To find TDC, disconnect the battery, remove #1 plug, hold finger over the plug hole, rotate engine until you feel pressure building in the #1 cylinder. When the piston reaches the top of that stroke, it will be at TDC. Now set your distributor if needed.

 

When I did all that is when I found that the rotor was pointing toward the #4 post on the distributor and not the #1 post. I repositioned the distributor and set the timing to 5' btdc and still no fire. I am thinking the plugs are fouled after all the cranking. Everything else seems to be in order... Thoughts?

 

its been a long long time since i fooled around with one of theese engines, but to be honest i dont think IIRC one will even run 180° out of time, some others will chime in

 

I agree. You have to be Top Dead Center Compresion in order to set the dist. To ensure timming you can pull all your plugs and rotate the engine. Watch your points and as they break refer to the cap to see which piston is to be fired and by looking in that pistons plug hole ensure the piston is TDCC. It's time consuming but it could be worth it for piece of mind.

 

I wonder if the rotor is mounted 180 degrees off. I know there is a square and round holes to locate, but I'm just wondering. Could you shoot a pic of the distributor with the rotor attached and positioned where #1 tdc is? I bought my distributor at autozone and at the time the jeep ran but the old distributor was not installed. I turned the motor by hand until the timing mark was at "0 tdc" looked in the shop manual to find the approximate distributor position, put the dist shaft in so the rotor was pointing at no 1 plug in the dist cap and gave it a go. It fired right up. I'm not positive but I didn't think that the timing mark would show 0 tdc on the exhaust stroke. It was a chance I was taking and figured if I was wrong then I would turn the dist shaft 180 and then be good.

On a side note, when I got my jeep from PO I discovered the wrong fuel pump was installed and although it pumped fuel and the engine ran, it only ran for ten minutes and then died, and it hesitated when trying to accelerate. My "dauntless" required a fuel pump with the vapor/return port. as soon as I hooked it up it ran perfect.

Good luck.

 

The Dauntless will surely run 180 out you will know right away from the backfiring and such but it will run 180 out.
And you keep saying there is weak fire 180 out would have nothing to do with this symptom it should have a strong spark no matter where timing is at the motor may or may not run but should have a strong spark.
Pull the coil wire and check the spark there if it is week there you still have a problem within the distributor, coil, wires ect.
I had the same type of problem years ago after banging my head against the wall for weeks it turned out to be a faulty set of plug wires.The set that was on it looked like new but apparently there was something wrong put a new set on it fired right up.

 

Just by chance... your wires are not attached in opposite rotation of the distributor are they?
Silly, but I did that and liked to never got it figured out.
Just a thought.
Tommy

 

I got it! You guys are awesome. I had been finding TDC on the exhaust stroke so you guys who thought I was 180 out were right. I found TDC on the compression stroke, re-stabbed the distributor. Set the points at .016, put the cap back on and it fired right up! Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I really appreciate it.

Mike

 

Glad you finally got it working. Yep you had more than one issue going which makes the troubleshooting 10 fold.

 

It seems as if my weak spark issue has returned. I started it up every few days all fall and while it never really ran great, at least it would start. The past few days I have been trying to get it to start again and it's been doing the exact same thing as this summer. This time I at least know the distributor, timing, etc. are all correct. I figured it was just one of those things that happens with points and a condenser so I picked up a Pertronix kit and installed that today along with a set of new plug wires. I also installed a clear fuel filter in order to verify fuel was getting to the carb. I still seem to have weak spark. It cranks like a mother but won't fire, even if I spray starting fluid down the carb. I just don't get it. I guess I need to know how to check the spark at the coil, the plugs etc. and see where the breakdown in the system occurs. Thanks in advance guys.

 

are you sure your points are set correctly ( sorry if this has been covered i havent read this whole post). the correct setting is .016

 

A lot of things could be causing the weak spark. I gained significant improvement in spark on my F134 by improving the ground. Try sanding the area where the distributor clamp meets the block. I had a lot of gunk built up on that area of the block. ( I also cleaned the mud off the outside of the coil which seemed to help.)

 

mainejeep - I swapped out the points for a Pertronix kit yesterday.

Brush - I will try that right now.

 

Ok - sanded down area where dist. clamp connects to the block, verified good ground by using test light in that area. Cleaned all the spark plugs which were fouled black, also turned in the mixture screws a half turn each.

Still no start.

 

Sounds like you may have a different problem. Earlier you said you had found TDC and timed it correctly and it ran great. Then it slowly degraded over the course of a season and now it won't start at all. I'd double check to make sure you installed the Pertronix correctly, for starters. I know they're pretty simple, but still...

How did you clean the plugs? Do you know why they're fouling? Does it smoke? Do the fumes from your exhaust make your eyes water? Is it oil fouling or fuel? It seems like you've replaced just about everything in the ignition system with the exception of the plugs themselves, though you mentioned that you cleaned them once, and then again after discovering that they were fouled. How are you cleaning them? If the plugs are extremely fouled, it may not be possible to clean them well enough to revive them. A base fouled plug may not spark at all under the pressure generated by the compression stroke.

I would do two things: First, check your mixture screws. Set them both to 1.5 turns out from *lightly* seated. Then buy yourself some new plugs. The PO may have even installed the wrong plugs with the wrong heat range, which could be contributing to the fouling issue.

 

when cranking the engine, it spins over very fast (faster than usual) then you have lost compression. When you loose compression you also loose the ability of the engine to suck in any fuel. Too much gas in the oil caused by choke starting and shutting down and not getting engine hot enough to evaporate the gas in the oil will cause this. If your dipstick shows over full and smells of gas then you may need to change the oil. You could also take a compression check.

 

I always fall back on this process - I've used it so many times I have it printed and in a clear sleeve in my garage. May seem stupidly simple, but if you follow it, it makes you think through everything. Says it's for an L-134, but it works for pretty much anything.

http://mightymo.org/Proj_No_Spark.html

 

I just wanted to update all you guys who took the time to help out with the problem. Turns out it was several problems again.

Walt - You were completely right about there being gas in the oil, I think it was almost 7 quarts that I drained out today. It smelled like gas really bad as well.
Davistroy - That list you linked to was awesome! I just ran through that from start to finish and found that my "new" coil was bad. It didn't check out on the - to + across the coil or from the - to the high voltage. I did have access to another coil that tested perfectly according to those instructions. I finally had spark.

Once I got done with all that stuff, I was able to get it to cough with a little starting fluid but not run, I verified that gas was getting into the carb but I couldn't see the 2 nice squirts of fuel when I pressed the accelerator. I popped the top of the 2G off and the rubber seal around the plunger assembly was half missing. I swapped that in with one I had from a rebuild kit and it cranked and fired almost instantly! It felt so good to have a great set of instructions and a bunch of insight from you guys. Thanks a ton!

flyingtim - You were right too, I turned the adjustment screws to 1 1/2 turns out and it's not burning my eyes or smelling like gas anymore.

Thanks again guys. It idled and ran for about 20 minutes today. Ran way better than it ever has before.