Questions on Saginaw boxes

Ive have searched the various Saginaw related threads and stickies but cant find the relevant info.

I have a 55 CJ5 with the F134, stock steering with the Ross box, original crossmembers, and a bone stock Dana 25 front axle with single hole steering knuckles. After reading many posts here, apparently I will be wasting my time and money attempting to rebuild the stock steering setup. I will not be using the rig for daily driving, long highway use, or super aggressive wheeling. I will retain the 7x16" NDT tires/wheels and do not plan to increase the size. I am capable of welding and basic fab.

I plan to use the Advanced Adapters 4 bolt hole mounting plate. I have found a Saginaw box at Autozone (Duralast 6529). Input shaft is 13/16" 32 spline. Output shaft is 1.25" 32 spline. 4 turns lock-to-lock. This is comparable to the NAPA NSP 88277060 except the NAPA is 2.5-3 turns lock-to-lock.

I plan to use my existing wheel and steering column. I will cut the worm gear off of the column shaft, replace the shaft back into the housing and will attach somesort of weldable CV joint on that shaft end.

My questions/concerns are these:
1) Advanced adapters includes a spud shaft extension allowing the gearbox shaft to extend through the OEM crossmember, however they only offer the spud in 30 or 36 spline, in .730 or .800 diameter. I need somesort of spline connection from the box to column shaft, thus making a long steering shaft. How are you guys fabbing this? I saw several posts in the sticky showing the weldable CV unions. Where are you guys sourcing this junctions?

2) Ive read several recommendations of not putting power steering on the F134, for the sake of power loss turning the pulley on the pumps. Surely some of you have some experience, if any, of power loss? How bad? Negligible? If I remove the fan and switch to E-Fans - Im guessing this could alleviate.

3) What is the common pumps used on my engine? Do they need to make pressure stats or flow numbers withing certain ranges to operate the gear box I have chosen or are they all failry similar.

4) As of recent, does anyone know good sources besides the local U-Pull-It for a 2 hole passenger side steering knuckle for the Dana 25 so I can run one tie rod bw the wheels and have the drag link connected to the same pass side knuckle?


Thanks

 

speedway has parts for hot rodders
Steering Shaft Universal Joints - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors
as for 2 hole knuckle . post a WTB ad

 

Another option.

There is quite a bit of work to make the saginaw swap work. Its a great swap for power steering and i love mine. I run big tires and my jeep pile was lacking in any quality components, so I had little choice but to do some drastic changes.

If yours works and you're using it to just cruise around, why change it? If you're looking for easier steering a V6 ross box will make that happen. Its a bolt in swap. I ran my first 2a with a v6 ross box and it wasn't too bad. It wasn't modern but I did use it as my daily driver for several years that way in small city traffic.

a manual saginaw box will work fine, but I don't know that its a whole lot better than the v6 ross box and would require all the work of the power unit.

If, like you say, you're running 7x16 NDT's why do anything? I know from experience the stock small ross box will turn those tires with very little effort, the sector shaft bushing, bell crank repair kits and new tie rod ends are all readily available.

IMO ,for your stated purpose, rebuilding your present system or upgrading to a V6 box will satisfy your needs with very little engineering effort.

 

Hi - yes, typically you will hear that the parasitic load of power steering is not appropriate for an engine like the F134.

Here's an earlier thread - f-134 powersteering | EarlyCJ5.com

You realize that we have a sticky thread about power steering? Saginaw power steering (pics) please add yours!! | EarlyCJ5.com

 

Try the Wagoneer forums for a 2-hole knuckle, like IFSJA or FSJNetwork. All the closed-knuckle Jeep knuckles are interchangeable. The pre-'73 axles for Wagoneers and J-trucks should be a good source. You can also try the Jeep junkyards like Jake's in NC (FSJ only) or J&W in CA (expensive). Cheapest source will be a private-party sale. A 27 from a Wagoneer is a cigar butt for anything but restoration - you just need to find one.

The two-hole with a single piece tie-rod would be a good upgrade even with the Ross, I'd think. We also had an interesting thread recently on a tapered-bearing replacement for the bell crank - depending on your fab skills, you could make one and this could be an excellent upgrade for you. So, rebuilt V6 steering gear, rebuilt drag link, bell crank mods, new knuckle, one piece tie rod - there are mods you can make without going Saginaw.

 

The vehicle may be 60 years old the box design goes back to about 1925-1930.
I rebuilt mine and 2 years later it was nearly as bad again.
I am running a 4 bolt Saginaw 800 power box that has never been rebuilt , is very tight and it was built in 1975.
Personally I wouldn't waste my time or money with a Ross of any kind.
Pumps can be adjusted for pressure to tone them down. The only real drag is when turning otherwise pretty much nothing.

 

Mike made this claim in previous thread, so I was curious. I tried to verify how much parasitic load the power steering really is. I could not find any numbers other than 0.5% or 2%, which is pretty inexact considering the range of power produced by automotive engines.

The main reference to parasitic load concerns electric power steering. These articles claim that the there is a constant load due to the friction and because the system must maintain hydraulic pressure constantly. Electric steering boost is entirely on demand, so it has the potential to be more efficient than hydraulic assist.

 

This!

As suggested by Tim look at the link to all of the Saginaw steering conversions.......plenty of ideas there.
Extensions for the input shaft can either be made or purchased. The column will require some machine work to make it ready to use.........namely the steering shaft inside is a little larger than a standard sized u-joint is so it will need to be turned down a little. A bushing will also need to be made to fit the now shorter column tube at the end to support the cut off shaft...........also a floor bracket needs to be made to support that same end............been done many times and in various ways. The motor and pump are only being taxed when turning..........driving straight ahead has just a slight drag on the motors power.

 

I did a Saginaw steering on my'61 while it had a 134. Didn't really notice a power loss as I was elated at the positive steering control. I used all AA parts, spud, mount, tie rod and the reverse end that the drag link attaches to and pitman arm. If the parts store has the box in stock, have them pull it and count the splines. Sometimes the description in the catalog is wrong. Then call AA and ask if they make a spud for that box. My pump and box came from Upullit yard but not from the same vehicle. Most difficult task was fabbing the mount for the pump.

 

I run a manuel saginaw box off a late 70's cj5. I made my own bracket out of a piece of 1/2" flat stock with three 1/2" tabs welded on top so I have three 1" thick tabs where my mounting bolts are. I boxed in my frame horns and welded the mounting plate in. I ran a one piece tie rod and drag link It works really great with 32" tires. I like the feel of a manual box. It's way better then the old belcrank etc. You do not need to run a spud shaft etc. you can run the shaft under the cross member and cut your stock steering column down. I used AA steel plate for the floor and got there bronze bushing for the bottom of the column.

 

What did Ford and Dodge use for manual steering?

 

I just pulled a manual saginaw box, connected to welded ujoints and shaft between. Maybe we can work a deal

Fltfndr