couple of project "issues"

Project is swapping a 4 cyl for a 225 on my '48 flatty.

1. T90 trans input shaft won't turn when mated to t-case.
Bought, from Herm, the needed longer input shaft and adapter for the t-90 to mate with the 225, and bought a rebuild kit for the tranmission. The rebuild went great. But when I bolt up the tcase to the transmission (using the existing D-18 t-case) the input shaft of the trans doesn't turn. When I loosen the 4 bolts connecting the two cases together, the input shaft turns good. I'm thinking that the new main bearing on the output shaft is getting "squeezed/pinched"..like maybe its not "thick" enough. I'll compare it to the original bearning, as it worked fine before I separated the cases.. Any suggestions??

Also just left a message for Herm....

2. Installed a high pressure oil pump in the 225. Installed the supplied 1/4" "spacer" plate between the t-chain cover and the oil pressure pump cover. This is needed because the new gears are 1/4" thicker than the originals and therefore extending out further out of the t-chain cover. Had to purchase a replacement "metric" cover because the original broke (4 bolts broke) when trying to remove it (thanks to Jon, we were able to save the t-chain cover). When I tighten the new "metric" cover, then use a screwdriver to spin the new pump gears, it turns real hard/binds. There's suppose to be .001 - .003 shaft end play/up and down movement of the pump drive gear...there's nothing. The net/net is that the gears are binding against the inside housing of the new "metric" cover. When looking at the old/broken cover, I can see where the gears created a "groove". There's no groove in the new "metric" cover.

Note that the two strips of shims that came w/the kit were for centering the spacer plate so the new teeth on the gear wouldn't chew on the inside of the spacer plate...these were were temporarily put in place between the teeth and the housing of the spacer plate.

I'm at a loss...

 

Been a while since I've rebuilt a B-W 3-speed, but as I recall, your small parts kit comes with an assortment of snap rings of varying thicknesses. The manual is vague about this... you can pick the snap rings to minimize the main shaft end play. From this I'd presume that you can pick snap rings that will bind up the transmission too.

When I did my B-W rebuilds, I reused the bearings so I simply used the same thickness snap rings as came out of the transmission. Keeping track of these thicknesses is something you should do as you disassemble.

As I understand you, the transmisson spins with the transfer case detached, the input shaft in place, and the front bearing retainer snugged down. I don't remember exactly how the output bearing is pushed into the case, but I'd guess it's by the TC pushing on the snap ring on the outer side of the output bearing. Thus you're taking up the end play between the input shaft and main shaft when you bolt it up. IIRC end play can be adjusted.

Re the oil pump gears, the clearance spec is straightforward and can be measured with plastigage. If it's too tight, either something is assembled wrong or the parts are defective.

 

Jerry, 1st of all I'm anal about all things that are supposedly precision built since its what I do for a living. After saying that I noticed when I rebuilt my pump that there were burrs all over the new gears, I took a small india stone and filed all the burrs off of the gears and ran some 400 grit emery paper around the gears and across the bottom, you may also have the same problem. 2nd you did putthe little gasket in place did you not, this gasket is critical for clearance. As afinal you can take the impellers and measure there thickness and measure the iron plate thickness and compare all the readings.

 

Mike,
Did check the gears for burrs (like your note to me said) and didn't see or feel any. I'll check again. Yep, installed the black gasket between the spacer plate and the cover...Look like I get to purchase a dial caliper....Thanks....(still scratching my head)...

 

That will work, tried earlier to think of something you could easily get to lap the end of the gear, being a toolmaker I have a granite surface plate in the garage to do this on so I was having a problem thinking of something that most people could get there hands on.

 

Soooo,,,I should "sand" the surface of the gears that are rubbing on the oil cover w/the 400 paper? The purpose of the "plate glass" is used to verify that enough material has been "sanded" so the gears don't touch anymore (??)

 

the glass gives you a near perfectly flat ( perfectly flat to the adverage person) surface to put the sandpaper on.

mcruff you have a granite plate... how cool.

 

Try bolting the transfer case input gear on after bolting on the transfer case and see if any difference. The gear and nut will pull the output shaft out and help to set proper clearance between the synchro's and gears. Could be the bearing is pushing on the spacer just enough to push the output shaft into forcing the second gear forward into the second gear synchro causing them to lock up. Have had T-90's do this until the transfer case input gear is bolted up. Nickmil.

 

Yes I do, 2 of them, one at home for my toys and a big one at work on my roll away.
If I had to replace all my machine tools tommorrow it would cost me nearly 35K to do so, without counting the mill, lathe and bandsaw in my garage.

 

Lower left bolt hole does go through to the reverse idler gear...Just bolted it back together...still binds (didn't even use this bolt).

Regarding the "the one from the front side which would jam the thrust washer against the intermediate gear", are you referring to the 4 allen head bolts that connect the main drive gear retainer?

 

Not sure what your referring too (my bad). I haven't updated the t-case and have an OD. I know its not the t-case the trans output shaft binds before I install the OD unit...

Going back to the garage (home away from home..)

 

I'm stumped...

I removed both the tcase and the front adapter plate (needed due to long shaft needed to mate the t90 to a v6), and checked the main drive gear and mainshaft bearing thicknesses to ensure I had the right parts. They are the same as the original bearings.

Next I bolted back up the t-case and the input shaft spun normally. Next I installed the adapter plate on the front of the trans. Again, when I get close to tightening it up, the input shaft can't turn. There are 4 allen bolts that connect the "main drive gear retainer" to the adapter plate. These bolts do NOT go into the tcase, like the original ones did, so they aren't binding anything up. The 4 bolts that connect the t-case to the trans aren't binding anything up.

Geeze..did I forget a spacer/thrust washer? The disassembled view that I have doesn't show a spacer/thrust plate for the reverse idler gear assembly. Think I may need to pull the countershaft and make sure I have the front thrust washer installed and the steal and bronze thrust washers installed correctly at the back of the counterbalance shaft.

I'm stressing and am going to eat a bowl of ice cream!

 

Must be your feminine side coming thru.

 

Has nothing to do with the transfer case. Has to do with the transmission output shaft being pulled all the way against the rear spacer behind the bearing and the shaft being pulled through the bearing all the way when the nut for the bull gear is tightened down. My first explanation was very fuzzy. Sorry about that. I've seen on T-90's when the bull gear (transfer case input gear) is tightened down it will pull the transmission output shaft tight against the spacer on the output shaft and against the bearing and give you the necessary clearance between 2nd speed gear and the synchro freeing it up. This can only be checked properly with the spacer, bearing between the transmission and transfer case installed, the case itself installed, and the bull gear installed and the retaining nut torqued down. Nickmil.

 

* Don't think its the bearing retainer..The old and new "main drive gear bearing(s)" fit nicely in the new front bearing retainer.

* The main drive gear "bearing snap ring" (fits in the grove) is installed as is the "main drive gear snap ring". The felt "bearing retainer oil seal" is also installed.

Hummmm?