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Which 4-speed?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Bowbender, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Sep 3, 2017
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it! 2020 Sponsor

    Northern Minn.
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    I've been thinking about putting a four speed transmission in my rig sometime down the road and not sure which one I should be looking for. I plan on keeping my stock Dauntless 225 and D18 transfer case. I would like as close to "bolt in" as possible. My reason for doing this is to get a lower "crawl" speed. At this point, I plan on keeping my stock 3.73 axles, which should give me the highway speed I want.
     
  2. Sep 3, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    There is plenty of information about this on the Novak site. Read the articles on the T-18/T-19, and the Muncie transmissions SM420 and SM465.

    Nothing is going to be really bolt-in.

    Do you want a junkyard solution or are you willing to pay for a conversion kit?
     
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  3. Sep 3, 2017
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it! 2020 Sponsor

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    I'll go do some more looking a Novak's site (I just spent some time there :)). I am leaning towards going with a conversion kit, but have not ruled out the junkyard solution. I'm not afraid of doing some fabrication, but I'm not a mechanic/machinist by trade.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    I personally like the Borg Warner / Ford version of the T-18 wide ratio transmission w/ the 6:32 low gear...........has the right input shaft length for a 225 and can easily be modified bolt pattern wise to a Buick housing, has one of the shortest case lengths when combined with an aftermarket shorter main shaft and adapter to a Dana 18 & will fit in your floor boards with minimal cutting and top cover work ..............bullet proof internals , parts are still available everywhere.........Find a late 70's version w/reverse over and down. No syncro in first or reverse so when buying used pay attention to those gear sets that do get raked by drivers that should not be drivers............just have to come to an almost complete stop before grabbing either gear...........Put a good one together and will last longer than most jeeps.
     
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  5. Sep 3, 2017
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it! 2020 Sponsor

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    Thanks, this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for.
     
  6. Sep 3, 2017
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I love my t-18. I switched from a Saginaw 4 speed. Next to power steering, the t-18 was the best thing I've done.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2017
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    T98/T18 transmission is definitely the best bang for the buck. A 77-78 CJ5 version is almost a direct bolt in with a little oblong of a hole.
     
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  8. Sep 3, 2017
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Done both the T18 and SM465. Depending on what I found. While I like the gearing of the SM465 better than the T18, its a huge pig to put in. I've used the real short Novak Adapter for the SM465 so the length isn't much different than using the T18.

    With the T18 - there are SO many versions out there. Be real careful what you get and the parts needed to match them to.
     
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  9. Sep 3, 2017
    Dave B

    Dave B Frankenjeep '67

    Northern Minnesota
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    Bowbender, if you would like to try one out -- give me a PM and plan to stop by. On a fairly steep descent (a flat-lander talking) it will hold under 1 mph on a GPS.

    (Avatar pic) 1967 CJ5 -- V6, T98 4-spd, Dana 18 single stk; Axles: 27A (front) and 44 (rear) with 4.88's; Warn overdrive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  10. Sep 4, 2017
    y2grey

    y2grey Member

    Fayetteville NY
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    I suppose the question would be...For the novice; what is the easiest 4 speed swap? Flywheel on back...
     
  11. Sep 4, 2017
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    The easiest swap would be to find a transmission that is already bolted to a bellhousing with a transfer case already on it that was known to work behind an engine the same as what you are running. Then the only loose end is making two drivelines.
     
  12. Sep 5, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    The Borg Warner T18 is certainly my #1 choice of all 4 speeds behind a Dauntless engine.
    The Ford T18 with Jeep T18 mainshaft and adapters is probably the easiest for most to assemble.

    But I prefer a Jeep version of T18 with a case modification.
    The Jeep case modification allows the Jeep case to bolt direct to the Dauntless bellhousing.
    Basically you have to weld "ears" onto the Jeep case so it will mate direct to the GM bellhousing pattern.
    " 55% nickle " stick electrode and AC current is what I use to weld on the case..
     
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  13. Sep 5, 2017
    RATTYFLATTY

    RATTYFLATTY I think you need a little more throttle

    Central MN
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    How far north are you? I have what you need to see. 225 with stock bell/ford T-18 6.32 1st/Jeep T-18 to Dana 20 adapt which will work with a Dana 18. There are a few details I left out as far as grinding, tapping and very little machining(bearing retainer). You have a PM
     
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  14. Sep 6, 2017
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it! 2020 Sponsor

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    Well, the search is on! I may find out tomorrow if a local source has a T-18 that will work for me. I'm going to pursue the "junkyard" conversion approach.
    Many thanks for all the responses to a question I'm sure has been asked before.
     
  15. Sep 9, 2017
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    North Central FL
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    My vote is for the SM-420 but then again I am biased..
     
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  16. Sep 9, 2017
    KBH

    KBH New Member

    Tucson, AZ
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    My '66 CJ5 with the original 225 V6 has a Ford NP435 four speed transmission with an Advanced Adapter to what I think is the stock bell housing. It's really a three speed with a "granny low" first gear. With the dana 18 in low and the NP435 in first, the Jeep just crawls along. It works well for me. I am going to add an overdrive for highway driving. I ordered one from Advanced Adapters four weeks ago and it still hasn't even shipped yet. I may cancel the order and buy from Herm the overdrive guy...
     
  17. Sep 9, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I don't know of any junkyard solution for this swap that starts with anything other than a Jeep T-18, or a Binder T-18. You need the adapter and the main shaft, in some form. Once you have one of those, you have a way to connect a T-18 or T-19 to a D18 or D20 with the Texas pattern. Any of the other 4-speeds will require a $500 conversion kit, with a new main shaft and an adapter. AFAIK.
     
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  18. Sep 9, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    I just turned down a 1975 Jeep J10 T18 and matching D20 .
    But only turned it down because the maindrive is too long for my liking.
    I think it's right near 9-3/ 8" stickout for J10 with 258 engine.

    The optimum maindrive stickout required for a Dauntless engine with no adapter plate between transmission and bell is 6-3/4".
    The shortest Jeep T18 maindrives are 7-1/4" stickout and that's about as long as it can be without an adapter plate.
    Actually one could saw some off the front of a Jeep 7-14" "stick out" maindrive pilot if they wanted it a little shorter.
    The Ford maindrive has 6-1/2" "stick out" and that is about as short as you want to go because it's 1/8" shy of fully entering the 3/4" long GM crankshaft pilot bushing.

    For OAL of various T18 pilots add 2-5/8" to the stated "stick out" lengths because the gear end enters that far inside the case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  19. Sep 9, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Wouldn't this solve that problem?
    T18-16LX T18 -17 Tooth Short Input Gear
     
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  20. Sep 9, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    Just putting it out there as another option....

    If you can find a T-18 that came behind a Buick 350 in a '68-'71(?) J-truck or Wagoneer, it is a direct bolt-in behind the 225. It has a long bellhousing, but it does fit in a 5 with a short rear driveshaft. I ran one of these for years in my '70.

    You'll have to swap the attached Dana 20 with a large-hole Dana 18, but it is as close to a direct bolt-in as you will find, aside from finding a setup that someone has already built.

    [​IMG]
     
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