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Theoretical Cj6 Build Ideas

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 26, 2023.

  1. Oct 26, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    So, after making the dash outside in the snow in my boxers and sandals to get the trash out (You can guess Jen is out of town)....sitting here with my coffee contemplating my ideal cj6 build. So let's say one had a v6 era cj6...how would one build it to take advantage of the longer wheelbase with more options for transmissions etc? ....so some of the standard stuff we like that I think would apply:
    1) ideally keep the 225v6, although willing to consider 4.3v6, especially if the 225 was in need of rebuild
    2) all the standard disc brake and steering upgrades (yes - power)
    3) D30 (or roxor 44) up front, 30spline centered D44 rear NT
    4) Build would be minimum 33s, but I'd love to figure out 35s to help compensate for the lwb.....and would consider SOA with flat springs. Given my driving temperament, I think I can get a 30/44 combo to last with 35s.
    5) Boxed frame (or TDK type replacement), with SR and later, wider leafs, taller shock towers, etc

    My initial thoughts would be basically around what would the best transmission/TC combo be in this set-up? Would be a manual transmission, and looking to move past the D18/OD combo, to either a D20 or D300, or is there something else I am missing. As Kyle has done with his build, you can run higher axle gears (3.31), no OD and get good CR using low gears in the TC and a granny low. And while this gives you quite the total span of low to high gearing, I would miss the additional gear selection that comes with the OD gear splitting or traditional 5 speed.

    Seems like the primary 5 speed transmission options are the Ax15, and the NV3550/4500. What ones might I be missing? Additionally, when looking at transmission/TC compatibility, D20s are relatively abundant and cheap In general, the NV4500 is stupid expensive. Using Novak as primary source of info, looks like the ax15 can be adapted to the D300 reasonably cheap, as can the NV4500. Is the Ax15 a reasonable option in this case, both function and strength?

    CR calcs assuming 4.88 gears:
    Trying to run an ax15 with D20 will not provide enough CR:
    Ax/D20: 37
    With D20 3.15 low gear: 59....a bit on the low side

    Ax15/D300: 49
    put 4:1 low gears in the D300 and CR becomes 75 - I think that could work....

    NV4500/D300 CR: 81
    that NV4500/D300 combo seems pretty good. albeit pricey I am guessing, but potentially no need for expensive D300 low gears.

    As much as I was thinking AX15/3.15 D20 combo, it might be better suited for the 58 than a CJ with intended hard use off-road. So what other options am I missing....sometimes AA has info on more diverse options that I haven't delved into.
     
  2. Oct 26, 2023
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Spokane Valley, WA
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    We’re gonna need a budget goal. :twist:
     
  3. Oct 26, 2023
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    Agreed. Everybody web-wheels but it’s the actual costs that pump the brakes on a potential project.
     
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  4. Oct 26, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    4.3 and nv3550 from a 2wd chevy 1500 and divorced D20.
    I haven't added up the length...
     
  5. Oct 26, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Another direction is 4.3 sm465 203 d18 /overdrive
     
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  6. Oct 26, 2023
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Spokane Valley, WA
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    Godzilla, ZF6, atlas
     
  7. Oct 26, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I figured as much....I was figuring limiting the engine and axles up front would help limit the possibilities. This wouldn't be a super tight budget, at least in the way I think of the cj5 and 58 builds. But everyone's budget is different, so lets push it a bit and say $20k for the whole enchilada - that would the purchase price, and typical other upgrades. So sticking to the engine through TC discussion and not getting sidetracked with big axles etc, maybe that allocates around $10k (probably less, but I'll give you a little play money) specific for the engine, trans, TC, adapters. If you rebuild a 225, that's around $3k for machine work (or buy from S&J) - not sure what a good, not sketchy used JY 4.3 is going for, but $3k seems ballpark. This build would take me awhile, so trying to save every penny scrounging for unusual parts would add too much time and kill my motivation to finish (remember I like to work all winter and wheel all summer - I don't like effing with tedious stuff that many of you can easily overcome with some fabrication skill). Within reason, for this build, that absolute budget mentality may be replaced by buying some stuff that make everything easier to do (like adapters and things that make it work together well).
     
  8. Oct 26, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Or, a little more sane, SB Ford & a ZF5. I love the ZF5 in my F250.
    5.72 1st gear & .77 5th
    IDK if there's a passenger drop Tcase that'll work behind a ZF though.

    Edit- ZF to D300 adapter, https://www.advanceadapters.com/4295
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
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  9. Oct 26, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I want to see a 6.0 nv4500 and one of these:
    upload_2023-10-26_18-3-33.png
     
  10. Oct 26, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You ask about this then I noticed a fiberglass cj6 body with a Commando frame has disappeared off fb marketplace since this morning. Was in Colorado... coincidence?
     
  11. Oct 26, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    that one was listed in Park City, UT (at least the one I think you are talking about)....not that I know anything about it....
    https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/157416587437197/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:2ebedd5e-3109-4098-8c06-cfada94ee191
    not sure about the 72 commando frame....the 66-71 are the 101" wb, which matches the early cj6.....not sure if those frames got longer with the 72 and later to match the long nose cj fenders. $1500.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
  12. Oct 26, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You meant to say four speed Atlas.
     
  13. Oct 26, 2023
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    I’d do a 4.3/NV4500/Dana 300 combo to your other criteria.

    If using an intermediate CJ6, I’d do a 4.0/AX15/Dana 300 or a NP231 to open up options for other front axles like a Ford or Wagoneer Dana 44. I understand this goes outside of your guidelines but an intermediate gives more options and room in the engine bay. A 4.0 swap would be a bolt in deal and could be wired in to utilize the MPFI. An AMC 360 would bolt in front of the AX15 also which could be fun with an aftermarket fuel injection setup. The Dana 300 is an easy choice but they’re also getting tough to find and the prices are going up. I like the NP231s as they’re cheap to get and cheap to upgrade but do put the driveshaft to the driver side. A CJ Dana 30 can be swapped to a driver side drop with the right knowhow too. Cherokee/Comanche Dana 30s can be built to run 35s without issue also but there are some who have issues swapping axles under their rigs that use unit bearings.
     
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  14. Oct 26, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I'd hate to give up a running 225, but I think the extra power of the later EFI 4.3 would be nice for the slightly bigger rig....if it was an F134, then no question, go 4.3.

    that long nose fiberglass body posted above would work with a 4.0.....and possible its bolt in to the frame, or amcv8 would be the other option I guess for that commando. In either case combined with ax15/D20 or D300 could be good, but would have to run low gears to get the crawl.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
  15. Oct 26, 2023
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    Dana 300s and NP231s use the same six bolt mounting found behind the AX15. Not sure if an AX15 to Jeep Dana 20 adapter exists.

    Look up “Project Ground Up”. It’s an early CJ5 Verne Simons built a while back that utilized a later model drivetrain and axles from an XJ Cherokee. Granted, it’s a 2.5/AX5 engine and trans, but it’s a good example of showing how well XJs work for parts donors. Easily works in for trying to build on a budget too.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Oct 26, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Novak has them
     
  17. Oct 26, 2023
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    You’re right! Thought only Bronco 20s were an option. [​IMG]
     
  18. Oct 26, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That's the one they did go to 103" for 72, I think... It can be made to work... I look at that a lot. But there's that 7 in Buena Vista that I have bad thoughts about..
     
  19. Oct 27, 2023
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  20. Oct 27, 2023
    kmj153

    kmj153 Member

    Stewartstown, PA
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    I find myself contemplating a CJ6 build daily. What I get hung up on is the engine choice. For parts and longevity, is a 4.3 the best option? and if so, what generation (TBI? MPFI?...). Or you could look at a 2014+ 4.3, called LV3. good power, up to date tech.

    Talking to some other people about this, some suggest stuffing a 5.3 in there. it's tight, but it could be done. And there is a lot of aftermarket support for the LS engines. But like you, I don't want to spend years building something, I'd rather have something I can enjoy sooner than fitting a v8 in an early jeep with lots of fabrication time.
     
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