Any one try water injection?

I think they were just using the reservoir at sAAB, they mention an injection pump here.

"Car installation is simplified by using windscreen washer water from the existing fluid reservoir, which limits additional under-bonnet equipment needed, to a single injector pump feeding the four cylinders. "

 

Suposidly it will increase fuel milage...another reason there were a lot of people experimenting with it during the last gas crunch in the late 70s (that and as another poster noted, you can run much higher compression engines on lower octane gas with water injection). I think the big reason it's never caught on with OEMs is they've been moving tward "idiot proof" cars for decades...remembering to add water to car to make it run right would be adding a step.
But hey, by the end of this thread maybe we'll have a complete "kit" worked out, complete with a parts list and instructions . Hopefully it'll be slightly more advanced than the humidifier hooked up with the dryer hose I talked about earlier...

 

I have been doing more research into this, and I feel that I can accomplish this. I will need to find a computer program so that I can input the required parameters. I am willing to experiment with water injection.
My hungry GMC eats 10.5 mpg, if I can increase it by as little as 12%, it will get at least 12 mpg, and this is conservative figures. If I were to get a 40% increase as some reports states, then I would get almost 15 mpg. If this was on a vehicle that got better mileage, then the figures would be more substantial.

 

curious and can't find, do the nozels spray into the carb or after the carb?

 

I couldn't find this either, (yet) but it would make sense if it were sprayed at the base of the carb to maximize atomization of the water in order to take full effect. If a component were added, like the Tornado Air Management Systems.http://www.tornadoair.com/ would also help to atomize the incoming charge. http://www.tornadoair.com/HowItWorks.php

 

I would guess after the carb. Use a carbplate and it might work.

 

I've done a little more thinking on this...
In my head I'm probably making this way more complicated than it needs to be, but here's an idea-- Use a pair of old TBI injectors (or just one if two would feed too much water), and install them over the air horn. Use a fuel pump that went with the injectors (or any TBI pump) to feed water to them. Now, you need a way to fire the injectors. Normally they open and close very rapidly according to what the computer says the demand for fuel is. So here's a thought on how to fire the injectors...take an old inductive timing light apart, and wire it up to fire the injectors instead of the strobe. If you hook the inductive pickup onto any of the plug wires, it would fire the injectors once per complete engine cycle. The injection rate would be directly tied to the timing curve, since it's controlled by the actual firing of one of the cylinders. Wheather or not this works would largely be determined by the ability of the injectors to deliver enough water to the intake to get the proper ammount to each cylinder. If someone was really good at math (not me!!), they could calculate the ammount of water delivered every time the injectors fire, and the volume of air cycled by the engine in one cycle, the ideal ammount of water needed at each cylinder, and figure out if the injectors can supply enough water in one shot to meet that need. If not, they would either need to deliver more water per shot (bigger injector) or fire more times per revolution (more than one pickup coil?). If the injectors are too big (a possibility), then you would either downsize them, or maybe reduce the pressure (and volume?).
Like I said, I'm probably making this waaay more complicated than it needs to be...just a thought.
Scott

 

way back in the 60s my dad sold a device called a vapor injector it was a complaced looking rig but it was really very simple there was a sealed reservoir to hold the water there was a vacume line coming from the top of the res. going to the intake manifold. there was a line going to the bottom fo the tank with a needle valve in it the vac from the eng pulled air in through the needle valve whitch bubbled through the water then to the intake there was a SPECIAL!! formula you had to put in the water
IT was methonal with a little acitone to help it mix they really did seme to help you would halfe to lower your idle some but you could advance your timing with out KNOcking. HTH

 

Toolbox, you may be onto something here. Your method makes perfect sense.

tomcam, I considered a similar approach to your method stated.

I have some research results pending, but I am at work now and will publish my results in the very near future.

 

I have a little time to display some facts here.
It has been done since WWII, there are companies that sell the parts and the know how, I will list a couple here.

http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
http://www.3barracing.com/

There are many more out there who do this. I really didn't see it offered commercially. (unless I missed something)

This is also something to consider when pondering why it may not be available commercially.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2003-04-22-alternative-energy-firms_x.htm

I hope this sheds some light on the matter.

 

I know most WW2 planes could run it to the firewall with boost for less then a minute before it would over heat the engine. Mr Long a man a know flew a P-51 in italy and said it would red line the temp gauge in about 20 seconds or so but would give you about 20% more power which helped keeping away from the front end of a Dora

 

Thanks for thoes links, I don't think I've seen thoes two before. There are commercially available systems, but so far as I've seen they are all geared tward the supercharged/turbocharged crowd. I did find a forum on a better MPG web site with people experimenting with it for better milage. Here's a couple of links...the first one is for a very old (1979) article: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green_Home_Building/1979_September_October/Water_Injection_Wizardry

The article really isn't much help though.

Here's a forum discussing water injection for MPG:
http://www.mpgresearch.info/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=00d000914c9c5573ffc6ebbbc9c3c834

Aquamist offers a commercial kit: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

Searching ebay you'll find kits from $200 to $700. I think we can figure out a workable solution for under a C note .

Here's an article on building an injection motor controller (looks like it uses the MAP sensor for input, so it's useless for a carb). http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1539/article.html

There's a surprising ammount of info out there on the subject...I really haven't had time to look for much though.

 

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1539/article.html

I see that a lot of the parts used on the Motor Speed Control Module are readily available at the local Radio Shack. You are right though, it is a doable unit, now I only have to find the time to commit to another project. (my wife is yelling at me for not finishing the jetted tub downstairs).

 

That's about the same boat I'm in. My wife and I have a 1 1/2 year old son, we just bought a house, and we both work full time. Well, my wife doesn't quite work full time, but it pretty close...she works 3 days a week and packs about 35 hours into them. Between family and work I barely have time to think about working on things, much less actually get anything finished. The house was mostly done when we bought it (built in 1910, but not much is original). Since we bought it I've had a lot to do though, but now mostly have a bunch of half-finished projects. I put new laminate floors in half the house, but haven't finished putting in the mouldings. I hung a set a double doors in office/laundry room, but haven't finished trimming them (or even cutting off the shims!). I put a rail around the deck, but haven't put in the stairs or stained it yet. In what's going to be our sons room, I put in all new sheetrock/texture/paint, but haven't put in a light fixture or painted the built in wardrobe. Etc. Etc....
I haven't had time to work on any of my vehicles in I don't know how long. Both my Jeeps are still stored under tarps at a friends house (been there since I moved last year!). I've got some more vacation time coming up, and I'm going to try and get some projects around the house finished up, and (hopefully) get the Jeeps moved down here.
After that I'd like to swap the engine out of the cj6 and put in the cj5, and hopefully get it going. I like to read these forums so I can enjoy Jeeping through the other members
The water injection thing is just the sort of project I'd love to dive into. In the past I've done a lot of goofy tinkering. When I was in college I built a pnumatic potato gun, a water cooled computer, things like that. I'm really curious to see what the results of you experiments are. I've read a lot of really encouraging things from experiments other people have done with water injection. Anyway, I'll quit rambling...

 

How about connecting it to the ported vacume on the venturi it proportional to the air flowing through the carb. That way you won't need any pumps.

 

Post #s 32 and 33 covered the vac. ports, but it would have to be plugged into the high side port.

 

toolbox, I swear that if I didn't see this, I woulda thunk that you were talking about my house. I have a similar dilemna with remodeling in my basement. (not to mention the back yard)

 

I doubt we're alone R) . When we first bought the house a couple of months ago I took some time off work so I could get as much done as possible before we moved in. Didn't want to do the floors after the move since we had all our stuff to put on them, didn't want to do sheetrock after the move since it's a HUGE mess to do, etc. So I tried to do the "critical" stuff before the move and leave the rest until after we got in. I'm desperatly trying to avoid letting the "inertia" set in, where you just get used to it being half done and it stays that way until it's time to sell the house.