Steering rebuild and conversion

I am rebuilding the fron end on my '67 Commando. It clearly needs a bell crank, numerous tie-rods ends and a new stabilizer. I don't know, but expect the steering box to be OK.

I'll do the obvious stuff first, see were that takes me. I'm running 31X10.50s, it has a home-made 3" shackle lift. I plan on going back to stock shackles and do a proper 3" spring lift.

Down the road, I want my wife to be able to drive this and have a couple questions about steering.

First, can this bell-crank type steering be made power steering?

If not, I'd have to go with a Saginaw conversion. I know it's done, but looking at the current set-up, it seems to me that unless you use the frame-mounted steering box (do you?), the steering shaft would go straight into the frame. How is the shaft directed to the Saginaw steering box located in front of the axle?

Thanks for any help.

 

The conversion sounds easy, but there are a lot of loose ends you will have to deal with. I did the conversion from the Ross style steering to manual Saginaw because I had a Saginaw equiped parts jeep to get the parts from. The Saginaw setup is more solid, and will last longer because it has fewer parts/links in the system. It should handle larger than stock tires with less wonder than the old Ross setup, BUT remember, most people compare a finished Saginaw conversion to a worn out Ross setup. You will probably be very happy with a renewed Ross setup. The parts are still available from JC Whittney or Turner 4wd. Sometimes it's better to use what you already have than to make lots of work for your self switching setups.
If you still want the Saginaw setup, and your willing to do some frame, motor mount, steering column and front shackle work, let me know and I'd be happy to walk you though the process with the needed parts and steps.
-Nathan
ebcnathan@msn.com

 

Having a Jeepster with only 12000 original miles and Ross steering I'd have to agree with Nathan. I can drive at 65/70 MPH with no wander at all. Nothing wrong with it, IF everything is tight. The bellcrank and draglink pivots are probably the three worst parts of the system, but they can be repaired without replacing a lot of parts. Even a little play in these is greatly exaggerated. I've seen a kit somewhere that is supposed to be the end all replacement for the bellcrank bushings and pin. I'll see if I can't find it. That said, Saginaw is still the way to go if you want to add PS but it is a bit of work to convert it.

 

As a teenager, I had a '70 Commando with 18K miles on it. I assume it was ross-type steering. It drove perfectly fine.

I am concerned only about steering effort with 31X10.50 (or slightly wider) mud tires, because my wife will want to drive this occasionally, hence, the desire for power steering.

At this point, I will rebuild the current steering from the bell crank forward, which is obviously worn out. That done, I'll see if the steering box itself is in better shape. If it's OK, and my wife is up to the steering effort, I'll be satisfied. If not, then I'll have to do power steering.

BTW, I read elsewhere that 1950s Hudsons had the same Ross boxes but with tapered bearings, and that these can be swapped-in and they steer much easier, feeling like power steering. I see also that Studebakers had Ross boxes (as do a number of 18-wheelers and farm tractors).

Has anyone tried such a swap?

 

Go to http://www.jeepster.org/ that will take you to Darren's Jeepster page then go down and click on steering ,he goes thru the saginaw steering swap , it's very informative with pictures....

 

I think your on the right track rebuilding the Ross setup. For the time and effort, it's hard to beat unless you don't believe in maintinance. In that case, the Saginaw setup is more durable.
Don't forget, when the Jeepster was sold with Saginaw it also came with the wider front springs and the modified spring shackles/hangers. I think it must help keep the spring shackles paralell and keep the sping in line. In my saginaw conversion, I replaced my original narow spring (ross style) shackles with new (same style) narrow shackles to help get rid of some of the play that came with worn out bushings. My tires are 30" and I get no sugnificant spring warp, but you might if you run 31" tires hard in an off road situation. After all, Jeep wasn't going to spend money on a new spring setup just because they wanted to dump more money into the Jeepster!
Keep us posted,
Nathan

 

I pulled the bell crank, but it does not look like the one for sale on EBay or the one pictured on The-Jeep-Guy site.

Here's a picture...


The front portion measures 7/8", the rear measures 1.1/8". It appears that rear might actually be a bushing or sleeve. If this is the case, there's no way I could press something like this on myself if the replacement parts come separated. There also seems to be a press-in bushing still in the mount on the frame (see second photo). Any comments would be appreciated. If I can buy the whole assembled unit, I would. Looks like it's attached with rivets so I'd have to grind them off and bolt on the new one, but that would still be preferable to the effort of rebuilding.



Gotta say, it's good to be back to a vehicle without electronics that I can actually work on!!! Love the fact that it's a Kaiser!

 

Gotta be honest with you, I've never had one apart so I can't really give you too much more insight into what it's supposed to look like inside. I might have one out in the back shed I can take apart and check. What you need to measure is the shaft size. The larger part is supposed to pivot on the shaft. The part you're referring to up inside may be just part of the housing.

 

BSW,

The wear part (bushing or bearing) would either be on the shaft that is pictured or in the arm that you removed the shaft from take a look at Kaiser-Willys Auto Supply http://www.accountwizard.com/client...&page=class&class=STEERING&subclass=Bellcrank

I have not taken mine a part, but most likely if it requires a pressed in bushing it would be in the arm. If it is you can take it to any machine shop to be pressed in. Best bet would be to call Kaiser-Willys Auto Supply

 

I believe the only difference between the one I posted the link to and yours is the groove in the larger part which is the bushing. Most likely an update to allow more grease to be retained in the bushing.

 

According to my newly aquired Jeepster Service manual, the actual "bell crank" is the arm and it does have tapered roller bearings pressed in. The part I photographed is called the "bell shaft" and the housing attached to the frame is the "Bell crank support". Anyway, the shaft pictured in the manual does not have the collar on it that mine does and the shaft alone is 7/8".

The bell crank goes on the shaft over the collar, which is 1.1/8" so this must be the size of the bell crank. The remaining part of the shaft is 7/8" and goes into the bell crank support.

The support does look like it has press-in bushings and there's a tiny bit of play, but I can't see how this is a problem that needs to be addressed because the shaft does not move in the support. There's a lot of play in the bell crank and the shaft, and the bell crank needle bearings are all gritty and very worn. You can see the grooves worn into the collar in the picture.

The shaft will need to be replaced as well as the bearings. My question now is, is this a stock 1.1/8 shaft or some sort of modification? All the pics I've seen so far do not show a shaft with a collar like mine.

BW

 

Thought about looking in the manual but I couldn't find mine . Think I got this figured out now. Measure the bolt length. The 1 1/8th is 4 3/4" and the 7/8th is 4 1/2" according to Willys Auto Supply.

 

I definitely have a 1.1/8 bell crank, but the shaft I have not been sure about. My old shaft is 7/8 at the top where it fits into the housing on the frame, but has a collar on the lower half that fits the bell crank at 1.1/8.

I have not been able to learn if my 1.1/8 bell crank is stock, or was made to fit a 7/8 shaft and housing.

Most suppliers have a picture of the 7/8 shaft in their bell crank rebuild kits, but I could not find a photo of the 1.1/8 shaft nor any description that might indicate if it was a solid shaft of that diameter (which would not fit into my housing) or, like mine, a 7/8 shaft with a collar on it.

I opted to order a 7/8 bell crank and a rebuild kit. It looks like it will work, but there are minor differences. The new shaft is slightly longer than the old shaft. Pack Rat informs that the 1.1/8 shaft is 4.3/4” long, the 7/8 shaft is 4.1/2” long. In my case, the new shaft is slightly longer. Not sure if it’s a ¼ inch difference. More distinctly, the groove in the shaft is higher-up on the shaft (see photos). Can anyone tell what the purpose of this groove is? At first glance, it looks like the bolt in the housing might fit into it, locking it into place, but that’s not the case. It might be to hold grease, but then it doesn’t seem that this shaft is supposed to turn in the housing so the grease would be unnecessary (other than to prevent rust to for easy replacement).

Anyway, it looks like it will work, so I’m going to install it and hope for the best. Still curious if the stock 1.1/8 bell crank has a one-piece shaft of that diameter and a different housing on the frame.

 

What was the final verdict? Did you have the 7/8 or 1 1/8 bell shaft? I have a completely stock (except the front bumper) 67 Jeepster, V-6 Dauntless, Ross steering. I've replaced all tie rod ends... now moving to the draglink ends and the bell crank. I'm hoping to not get into the steering gear box. I haven't ordered any parts yet. I've located the draglink ends on ebay and depending on the bellcrank bolt/adapters/yada yada, my search continues. Any info, to include part numbers and suppliers would be appreciated. Thanks

BTW, Background on the Jeepster. My dad was the second owner and purchased it mid 2000 from Yuma, AZ. He drove around in the 4 wheeler clubs through the ghosttowns and deserted mining towns. I have all the maintenance records going back to 1967. Obviously some are hard to read. I've only had possession of this beauty for about 2 months. First order of magnitude is to fix the steering. Pictures to follow! Go USA.

 

Well, I can't say exactly. I ordered the 7/8 bell crank (the more expensive one with bearings pre-installed) and the rebuild kit (shaft, washers) from Jeepsterman. It works fine, but it is not what I had (as you can see from the pics). The old bell crank is definitely 1.1/8, but I dont know if the shaft is actually the correct one.

I never called the Jeepsterman to ask, but I'm sure he would know the answer. My fear of course in ordering the 1.1/8 bell crank (shaft) kit would be that the shaft is a solid 1.1/8 in diameter and so would not fit the housing/mount attached to the frame which is 7/8.