Dauntless V6 Oiling Issue

I started my newly rebuilt Dauntless for the first time and had a very loud clanging noise from the bright rocker area. Also noticed that the oil pressure was only 20 PSI at 1500 RPM's and wouldn't go any higher. I pull the right valve cover and the #2 cylinder had a collapsed lifter. All the lifters and pushrods were new. There was almost no oil in the rocker area on the right head. Left head was normal. I guess I have an oiling problem to the right side. Where do I look first? I assume I have to pull the intake and replace the lifter. I had packed the oil pump with petroleum jelly at rebuild and spun the engine with the starter (spark plugs removed) before starting for the first time.

 

I had a bad lifter out of the box recently also. The left side oils from the cam bearing, the right side from the main oil galley up into the front rocker stand. I would look at that, and make sure the rocker shaft is in the correct orientation. For pressure, you should be able to spin up 30-40 lbs with a drill. If not, maybe look at the oil pressure bypass spring to make sure it's not too light, or the plunger can get stuck, allowing oil to bypass.

 

Read through this thread for details about 225 oiling and correct rocker shaft orientation: http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/141018/

 

X2, I expect the rocker shaft is not installed in the correct orientation on the right side. If that checks out to be correct, it could be that the collapsed lifter came apart. There is a spring-loaded plunger where the pushrod seats, and a wire clip holds the plunger from coming out. If this clip failed, the plunger could have pushed out of the lifter, dumping oil pressure past the lifter. Pull the offending pushrod and lifter and check if the lifter is intact.
-Donny

 

I had read the assembly instructions a couple times before I assembled it. I thought I got it right, but maybe not. Any idea why my oil pressure is low?

 

First of all, sorry to hear that. Sucks taking things apart twice.

There's an oil galley going to each lifter and one to each rocker. Perhaps, a push rod bent or popped off or lifter fell apart and the lifter moved up and out and into the space under your manifold? This would be the worst-case scenario. You would lose a ton of oil pressure and your push rod would have nowhere to seat. This could appear as a collapse but really it ejected.

I have had an ejector actually come apart on my dauntless and luckily all the pieces stayed under the manifold. I fished the pieces out and even cleaned the pan to be sure. This was all due to a frozen lifter and push rod impact. As a result I installed a new cam, lifters and timing set and meticulously flushed everything and confirmed oil flow.

As far as I can remember, lifters should pump up even if rocker was installed wrong so no relation between the two. If you do end up taking off the manifold, drive the oil pump with a hand drill and confirm oil is coming out of all the galleys. I did this durring my cam and lifter replacement. You can plug some of the galleys to force more oil out others.

 

If you did happen to install the rocker shaft on the right bank incorrectley then it would have closed off the oil path restricting flow which would cause an increase in pressure. Be sure you have the proper bolt in that front rocker tower. It is machined special so oil can move around it and up the tower to the shaft.

 

As suggested, I pulled the rocker shaft assembly off and probed the oil holes in the head. No blockage. Also checked the bolts, and they are the correct necked down design. I had and old dizzy and knocked the end off it to use as a pump primer shaft. Figuring I wouldn't get much oil out the oil hole, I left the rocker assembly off and proceeded to spin the pump. Well in no time, I had oil squirting everywhere, the wall, floor, engine, a real mess, but I was happy to see all the oil. I reinstalled the rockers and spun the pump again. Now there was lots of oil in the valve train. I installed a mechanical gauge and oil pressure jumped to 30-35 PSI as soon as I started turning the pump. As an added bonus, the collapsed lifter is now pumped up.
Clearly the oil pump did not get primed correctly even after it started up and ran. This oil pump is finicky.
Thanks for all the help walking me through it, it is greatly appreciated.

 

That's good news. I just remembered a step I may have performed when I installed my lifters. I think it was recommended to soak them in oil? It's been a long time but maybe that is how you prime them? This would explain it. Also, I think I ran the oil pump before engine start to get rid of valve train slop. Sounds like your already there.

Edit: Also, make sure the rockers are within spec. Hopefully they were disassembled, cleaned and inspected. Oil needs to make it across the valve train and if one is worn, the arms further down the line may starve.

 

So question regarding the priming of the oil pump. How much oil should be coming out of the rocker arms at around 40psi of pressure? Are we talking small drips or a steady stream? I was priming mine with a drill motor and the gauge was reading 40psi but I was only getting a slow drip of oil out of one of the rocker arms on the passenger side.

Something doesn't feel right about that. Need some guidance and help. Thanks.

 

I seem to recall having the same concern. I think this is what prompted me to tear mine apart and clean out the oil galleys in the rocker shaft. I just can't remember to what extent the oil was flowing when I finished. I must have seen at least some oil on the pushrods or I wouldn't have put it back into operation. My understanding is the oil should flow down the pushrod to the top of lifter and I think it's a very small amount. I do remember thinking the rocker oiling on this engine sucks and being a little frustrated.

I would really like to pull a valve cover and pull out a pushrod to check bottom of it. The problem with that is you can actually pull your lifter out of the seat so it's not a good idea.

 

When I finally got mine to pump, there was a constant drip from each rocker, not a stream. The amount of oil to the top end is nothing like a SBC.
I have Comp Cams valve train parts, and they said to not soak the lifters.

 

Well, I got it back together and spun the oil pump a few times to make sure it was still pumping. It was. Started it up and it ran good at 1800 RPM (still trying to do the cam break-in). Oil pressure was 30 PSI. After about 5 minutes, it started to clatter like before. Pulled the RH rocker cover, and the #1 lifter was collapsed again. Same one as before. Pulled it out, and this is what I found. I don't see how this could happen from my first go around with low oil pressure.

 

So where is the rest of the lifter? The plunger cup and retaining clip/ring are not shown. What brand lifters did you use? I’ve only seen lifters come apart from extreme valve float (very high rpm) or severely bent/broken pushrods.
-Donny

 

I'm having flashbacks. That looks just like mine when it exploded. If the parts aren't in the intake area, they are in the pan. First, make sure you know exactly how many parts make up a lifter and account for them all.

In my situation it was due to a stuck valve so there was no movement, pushrod bent and put too much pressure on lifter. I'm not sure why yours would do that being that the engine was rebuilt.

For some reason, a large amount of pressure was put on the top of the lifter or it was defective? Is the valve moving freely? Did you bend the push rod? You need to flush out any binding issues. That lifter looks damaged now. Clearly the push rod walked off the center and popped the cap off the lifter.

I can see the scenario Donny describing also causing this but probably not in this case.

 

The rest of the lifter was still assembled, but stuck down. I took it apart. The lifters are Comp Cams as is the rest of the valve train. This engine never went over 1800 RPM's. No broken or bent push rods.

 

That appears to be a dry lifter. Leave just that lifter out with everything else assembled and spin the pump. Observe the lifter bore to assure it is receiving
oil from the gallery. If lifter bore is receiving oil, replace lifter. Some like to soak the lifters in oil but that is not necessary if you prime the system with oil.
Assembly lube on the bore and outside of the lifter. Check/observe lash to make sure your pushrods are not bottoming in the lifters before installing the
intake. On the next start... leave the valve covers off temporarily to observe for noise and that the pushrods are spinning. No need to worry about much oil
at idle coming from the top of the head. Also can observe that all rockers are receiving oil

 

If you search YouTube for Comp Cams cam and lifter problems, this isn't very surprising. Often times the cam or lifters will wipe out the other, and many reports of brand new collapsed lifters. You might try Hughes or Howards lifters for better quality.

 

When you look at the assembly, there's nothing that could damage the metering plate. It sits flat on the bottom of the pushrod seat and is supported by the piston. I think it was bad right out of the box. I bought a couple of Melling (made in USA) replacements. I'll double check the oiling with the lifter out, good idea.

 

There's a known problem with some of the Comp grinds having a smaller base circle. Couple this with aftermarket ( usually FelPro permatorque)head gaskets it has been common to need longer pushrods. This doesn't seem to be your issue.
I can't remember the exact number but these engines only tolerate about . 425 lift before machining the valve guides is necessary due to rocker arm contact . If your grind is not stock or if your heads are planed/ block decked you may have an issue . I'd put a new lifter in and hand cycle the engine looking for contact.
Or you just got a bad lifter, anything is possible these days.